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[/img]radiant heat piping repair
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outside in
- Posts: 1338
- Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:02 pm
- Location: chicago
radiant heat piping repair
Looks like Johnson Wax had all of the answers!
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Paul Ringstrom
- Posts: 4777
- Joined: Sat Sep 17, 2005 4:53 pm
- Location: Mason City, IA
Surely the SCJ archives would have the "formula" for this product. It would be interesting to see someone make a batch and test it to see if it might be a solution to the radiant floor heating problem.
“There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.â€� ― Mark Twain, Mark Twain's Own Autobiography: The Chapters from the North American Review
“There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.â€� ― Mark Twain, Mark Twain's Own Autobiography: The Chapters from the North American Review
Former owner of the G. Curtis Yelland House (1910), by Wm. Drummond
Not a good day a Sweeton.
I went into the workshop this AM and found water in the unit grooves of the concrete...it was not storm water, and I determined it was not a water supply leak to the clothes washer or powder room. I shut down the boiler and its make up water supply, then I watched the pressure gauge..it slowly went to zero. When makeup water was turned back on, I could hear water going into the system and the gauge needle rose......sh*t! I kept vacuuming until the seeping stopped...about 3 gallons total came out before it stopped.
I called my heating guy. We will need to find the bleed. The boiler has not run for a few days due to warm temperatures; it ran for the first time this AM. This is the first I have seen water coming from beneath the powder room and I am in the workshop a few times each day. Not sure how long we have been leaking..it can't be too long as I feel the supply pipe regularly where it meets the boiler to check if it is cold..it was cold today. Make up for a pinhole may not have been perceptible, however.
I suspect the water would not bubble up from beneath the workshop floor, but rather, it may be seeping down from the master bedroom, following the either the supply or return drop pipe to the 24" lower workshop floor and seeping out through the wall. I don't know where the 2 drop pipes are, but I suspect they are in or behind the common wall with the master bedroom in the vicinity of the powder room, as that is where the water seeped from.
We have backup heat from Mitsubishi splits in the living, dining, and master bed areas...not efficient, but it will prevent freezing at least in this weather. I don't want to run the boiler on just the living room loop at this time because it is not isolated by valves...we may need to add those. Isolation valves are at the returns to the boiler and either side of each circulator pump.
Our pipes are welded steel.
I went into the workshop this AM and found water in the unit grooves of the concrete...it was not storm water, and I determined it was not a water supply leak to the clothes washer or powder room. I shut down the boiler and its make up water supply, then I watched the pressure gauge..it slowly went to zero. When makeup water was turned back on, I could hear water going into the system and the gauge needle rose......sh*t! I kept vacuuming until the seeping stopped...about 3 gallons total came out before it stopped.
I called my heating guy. We will need to find the bleed. The boiler has not run for a few days due to warm temperatures; it ran for the first time this AM. This is the first I have seen water coming from beneath the powder room and I am in the workshop a few times each day. Not sure how long we have been leaking..it can't be too long as I feel the supply pipe regularly where it meets the boiler to check if it is cold..it was cold today. Make up for a pinhole may not have been perceptible, however.
I suspect the water would not bubble up from beneath the workshop floor, but rather, it may be seeping down from the master bedroom, following the either the supply or return drop pipe to the 24" lower workshop floor and seeping out through the wall. I don't know where the 2 drop pipes are, but I suspect they are in or behind the common wall with the master bedroom in the vicinity of the powder room, as that is where the water seeped from.
We have backup heat from Mitsubishi splits in the living, dining, and master bed areas...not efficient, but it will prevent freezing at least in this weather. I don't want to run the boiler on just the living room loop at this time because it is not isolated by valves...we may need to add those. Isolation valves are at the returns to the boiler and either side of each circulator pump.
Our pipes are welded steel.
What is a Mitsubishi split ?
So sorry for your troubles.
I doubt that the Johnson product originally posted by outside in would be of help in the case of heating pipes, if they are surrounded by concrete -- as the product is said to work when the water it's borne by meets air. Water issuing from a break in such a pipe would presumably migrate through cracks in the concrete, upwards or, more likely, downwards, until it becomes visible. Would flowing water really become solidified in such a way -- and would there be enough air in the cracks to produce this reaction ?
SDR
So sorry for your troubles.
I doubt that the Johnson product originally posted by outside in would be of help in the case of heating pipes, if they are surrounded by concrete -- as the product is said to work when the water it's borne by meets air. Water issuing from a break in such a pipe would presumably migrate through cracks in the concrete, upwards or, more likely, downwards, until it becomes visible. Would flowing water really become solidified in such a way -- and would there be enough air in the cracks to produce this reaction ?
SDR
A ductless HVAC unit with an interior wall mounted air handler and an exterior compressor unit connected by refrigerant lines and a control wire.What is a Mitsubishi split ?
http://www.mitsubishicomfort.com/
For what it's worth:
What is the name of the Wright house that's across the street from Edwards in Okemos? The house was once owned by an architect who was on a team that did renovation work on GW. He told me that they had fixed holes in the radiant heating pipes by blowing a silicone product through it. The silicone fixed the leaks, and still left needed room for water flow. This conversation was at least a decade ago, and I'm sure I'm eliding the crucial details. But I know a lot has been published on GW over the years--perhaps the discussion of this process has been published somewhere?
I wish you all the best in finding/fixing the cause. You've already given so much love to Sweeton!
What is the name of the Wright house that's across the street from Edwards in Okemos? The house was once owned by an architect who was on a team that did renovation work on GW. He told me that they had fixed holes in the radiant heating pipes by blowing a silicone product through it. The silicone fixed the leaks, and still left needed room for water flow. This conversation was at least a decade ago, and I'm sure I'm eliding the crucial details. But I know a lot has been published on GW over the years--perhaps the discussion of this process has been published somewhere?
I wish you all the best in finding/fixing the cause. You've already given so much love to Sweeton!
That would be the Erling Brauner house.
I'm open to all ideas, but I'm reluctant to attempt a non-mechanical fix, fearing that it may be temporary and it's eventual failure might occur when I'm not at home, potentially resulting in a 24" deep flood, destroying my recent fit out of the workshop. I'm not happy about the current situation, but I am thankful I was able to address the situation almost as soon as it began.
My focus now is to map the as-built condition of the system as best I can from old correspondence, sketches, and my observations over the last 9 years, followed by infrared or ultrasound mapping as needed to pin point the leak. Once the leak is found the floor will be opened and the pipe spliced with heavily primed like material and the floor patched.
I haven't decided which is preferable: removing the powder room floor and its framing to cut a floor that will not need to be color matched when it is replaced, or removing a square or squares in the bedroom that will need to be carefully matched. Either way this will be expensive, but I don't want to give up the pleasurable feeling and elegant simplicity of radiant heating in the house.
I'm open to all ideas, but I'm reluctant to attempt a non-mechanical fix, fearing that it may be temporary and it's eventual failure might occur when I'm not at home, potentially resulting in a 24" deep flood, destroying my recent fit out of the workshop. I'm not happy about the current situation, but I am thankful I was able to address the situation almost as soon as it began.
My focus now is to map the as-built condition of the system as best I can from old correspondence, sketches, and my observations over the last 9 years, followed by infrared or ultrasound mapping as needed to pin point the leak. Once the leak is found the floor will be opened and the pipe spliced with heavily primed like material and the floor patched.
I haven't decided which is preferable: removing the powder room floor and its framing to cut a floor that will not need to be color matched when it is replaced, or removing a square or squares in the bedroom that will need to be carefully matched. Either way this will be expensive, but I don't want to give up the pleasurable feeling and elegant simplicity of radiant heating in the house.
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Roderick Grant
- Posts: 11815
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am