Wright Chat

Well, at at least one piece of it anyway. See below.

BTW, peterm, are you a Springsteen fan?

http://www.oakpark.com/News/Blogs/08-23 ... n_Oak_Park

Since you asked:-)

I appreciate his work, yes. Streets of Philadelphia is a masterpiece. Some of the early stuff is just great rock and roll, always from that unique perpective of east coast/rust belt working class. Born in the U.S.A. is his most misunderstood and abused piece. Here are the lyrics which Reagan probably never heard when he invoked Springsteen in 1984. Is this the patriotic anthem that he thought it was?

Born down in a dead man town
The first kick I took was when I hit the ground
You end up like a dog that's been beat too much
Till you spend half your life just covering up

Born in the u.s.a., I was born in the u.s.a.
I was born in the u.s.a., born in the u.s.a.

Got in a little hometown jam
So they put a rifle in my hand
Sent me off to a foreign land
To go and kill the yellow man

Born in the U.S.A...
Come back home to the refinery
Hiring man said son if it was up to me
Went down to see my v.a. man
He said son, don't you understand

I had a brother at Khe Sahn
Fighting off the Viet Cong
They're still there, he's all gone

He had a woman he loved in Saigon
I got a picture of him in her arms now

Down in the shadow of the penitentiary
Out by the gas fires of the refinery
I'm ten years burning down the road
Nowhere to run aint got nowhere to go

Born in the u.s.a., I was born in the u.s.a.
Born in the u.s.a., I'm a long gone daddy in the u.s.a.
Born in the u.s.a., born in the u.s.a.
Born in the u.s.a., I'm a cool rocking daddy in the u.s.a.


http://www.overthinkingit.com/2009/07/0 ... otic-song/

An above average lyricist and natural musician, in my opinion... Having said that, I never consumed his music, but did one really need to? It was possible to hear everywhere, especially in the early days of MTV...

I also happen to agree with his politics.

But back to Weinberg. He is a huge Frank Lloyd Wright fan, and happens to be selling his New Jersey house.

http://live.wsj.com/video/drummer-max-w ... A062894D33

Should someone approach him about the David Wright house?

Maybe he should buy the Bachman-Wilson Residence, and move it to a less flood-prone location. My guess is that he has the resources to do so if he was so inclined.

peterm-

I don't think Mr. Springsteen ever intended that song to be the patriotic public icon that it became, if only because of its title. But the timing of it's release, preceeding the 1984 Olympic Games in Los Angeles and combined with the wave of pro-American jingoism that swept over the country as a result, propelled the song into a place that I don't think even Springsteen could have forseen.

Anyone who took the time to listen to the words of the song or to actually read the lyrics would have instantly understood that this song was not a patriotic tribute to the good old USA. It was a gritty, powerful paean to the working man, and in particular to the veterans of the Vietnam conflict (because it really wasn't a war, you know), who were so tragically disrespected by the American public upon their return from the hellhole that was southeast Asia at that time.

You're probably sorry that you ever broached this subject with me, but please excuse me now as I step down from my soapbox.

Not sorry at all!...

Which is all a way of saying, as some did back in the 80s, that Springsteen was decades out of date even then.

I didn't think anybody took celebrities' political pronuncments seriously (always excepting the celebrities themselves). Now I find out that there are two. No wonder the world is in the state it is.

Reidy wrote:Which is all a way of saying, as some did back in the 80s, that Springsteen was decades out of date even then.

I didn't think anybody took celebrities' political pronuncments seriously (always excepting the celebrities themselves). Now I find out that there are two. No wonder the world is in the state it is.

Reidy-

I am baffled by your comments.

I was asked a question about a musician poet. (I would have to consider him to be a bit more important historically than a mere celebrity...) I responded by organizing and presenting my thoughts and opinions about this man's body of work. I also explained that though I respected him, I did not consume his product. Ronald Reagan also took him seriously enough to appropriate his message for his political advantage. If you have an opinion about Bruce Springsteen, or his music, then please present it. But is it really necessary to attack me when expressing myself publicly, (especially when I was asked my opinion!)?

If it is considered "decades out of date" to write lyrics that are challenging and critical, then I can not help wonder what kind of lyrics and music were more timely and important in the early eighties. Maybe you could share that with us...

By the way, my current interest in music is more in the direction of composers like Morton Feldman, John Cage, Karlheinz Stockhausen, and improvisers like Derek Bailey and Anthony Braxton, not necessarily household names or as you say "celebrities". But their work (mostly instrumental) certainly could in many ways also be considered political and/or critical as is most contemporary art...

I didn't think anybody took celebrities' political pronuncments seriously (always excepting the celebrities themselves). Now I find out that there are two. No wonder the world is in the state it is.

Reidy-

I too am unclear about the meaning of your previous post. What exactly does "Now I find that there are two." mean? Could you please clarify this for me?

What I meant by "now I find that there are two" was that peterm (Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:52 am) and Wrightgeek (Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:53 pm) both take Springsteen seriously as a political commentator.

What I meant by calling Springsteen's lyrics "out of date" is that they described the booming, information-based economy of the mid-80s in terms that were fashionable (not necessarily accurate) in the depressed manufacturing economy of the 30s. It's the line we used to get in the work of John Steinbeck and Ben Shahn. The war allusions would have been to WWI rather than Vietnam, but otherwise the message has changed remarkably little. It's what Willard Quine called "stimulus analytic" - evoked in response to every possible state of affairs.

The quality of a work of art has nothing to do with the quality of its didactic message. The Nicene Creed and Wagner's crackpot racial theories brought about some enduring music, but you don't have to believe the lyrics to enjoy it. Closer to home, you don't have to subscribe to any of the religions for which Wright built churches in order to appreciate the buildings. In all these cases I venture that most people ignore the message on their way to the art. In the event I'm glad that Weinberg is helping UTRF to raise money.

Using your logic Reidy, maybe Springsteen's message in the 1980's was that the more things change, the more they remain the same. Be it the 1930's or the 1980's, the circumstances may have seemed remarkably similar. But that could not possibly be the case, because no commercially viable and popular artist could possibly have anything relevant to say, right? Not Springsteen, or Guthrie, or Dylan, or Baez, or, well, you get the point.

Anyway, to each their own, but this discussion has gotten far too high minded and theoretical for my small mind, so I am out.

Who knew?

Max Weinberg and Joel Silver were high school buddies and remaun good friends. See the link below for more about Weinberg's recent appearance at Unity Temple.

http://www.wbez.org/blogs/lee-bey/2012- ... ght-102288