Ooops. It is John Adams. And I just read Mr. Virr's new thread posted ahead of my own referring to site and design. Sorry.
doug k
Want to build Usonian - Advise?
No problem. I'm learning more than I would have ever thought about Wright and architecture in general. Have been sneaking out between work hours (luckily I'm my own boss) and looking at properties getting more and more ideas and requirements.
Beginning to see the logic of going out farther and farther. One weird situation is my Grandfather used to own a perfect property for this project, sold it years ago for around $10K and now there are similar lots going for about $200K. He used to take my brothers and uncles out to help clear the land for his dream property and now that I am thinking back it was when this vision of the dream home began. Ironic.
Beginning to see the logic of going out farther and farther. One weird situation is my Grandfather used to own a perfect property for this project, sold it years ago for around $10K and now there are similar lots going for about $200K. He used to take my brothers and uncles out to help clear the land for his dream property and now that I am thinking back it was when this vision of the dream home began. Ironic.
Having taken on the challenge to build a home based on FLW's Jacobs #1, I can tell you that no matter how much you think it is going to cost, add 50% to it to come out with a price closer to what it will ACTUALLY cost.
Whatever your budget is: it's not enough.
Whatever your budget is: it's not enough.
How many escape pods are there? "NONE, SIR!" You counted them? "TWICE, SIR!"
*Plotting to take over the world since 1965
*Plotting to take over the world since 1965
SDR/mob, thinking the same thing. Had an agent quote me on the average custom square footage cost and am figuring 30% above that assuming I am doing rest of work with friends/family to make up the other 20%.
Interesting conversation regarding land today with agent. He said land cost is usually based off distance to a Tim Hortons (biggest coffee shop in Canada owned by Yum! now). The higher the land cost exponentially closer to timmies. Reason is they have done their homework on population projections. Sort of the Canary in the mine.
Interesting conversation regarding land today with agent. He said land cost is usually based off distance to a Tim Hortons (biggest coffee shop in Canada owned by Yum! now). The higher the land cost exponentially closer to timmies. Reason is they have done their homework on population projections. Sort of the Canary in the mine.
Update
Wow! Went to the bank to talk about the financing for this dream and was stunned how much they have clamped down.
1) You need a 35% down for property and building loan and have no other debt (no 2nds).
2) It has to be built in a 4 month time frame (not happening when I'm doing it myself which brings me to the third condition...)
3) I can't build myself unless I am a professional contractor, or have done this in the past with a record of pleasing the bank's requirements.
4) Bridge financing (carrying our house while building) is out of the question according to them.
Their advice to us was buy a $400K farm with a house on it instead of a $100K piece of property and build on it. I mean, wth?
What is strange is 3 years ago, I could have practically done this on a handshake from most private lenders but EVERYONE is packing the cash into other things.
So it looks like conventional financing is out of the question. So ironic because during the past week I've had a family member ask to borrow money to save their McMansion which the bank way over financed and is now pulling in the reins. In other words, they will finance someone that is so far in the red its not even funny and not touch us without 35% into the pot (we have 25% now but leery because of bridging).
So the order still remains, purchase land (will take a bit longer than thought now), design house and learn more in mean-time and then once the land is bought, build it with our own cash over time. Hard nut to swallow but I can wait for the dream. Waited this long. Had many many insights into the usonian lifestyle since then and actually am happy for the wait as we can then really do it ourselves.
1) You need a 35% down for property and building loan and have no other debt (no 2nds).
2) It has to be built in a 4 month time frame (not happening when I'm doing it myself which brings me to the third condition...)
3) I can't build myself unless I am a professional contractor, or have done this in the past with a record of pleasing the bank's requirements.
4) Bridge financing (carrying our house while building) is out of the question according to them.
Their advice to us was buy a $400K farm with a house on it instead of a $100K piece of property and build on it. I mean, wth?
What is strange is 3 years ago, I could have practically done this on a handshake from most private lenders but EVERYONE is packing the cash into other things.
So it looks like conventional financing is out of the question. So ironic because during the past week I've had a family member ask to borrow money to save their McMansion which the bank way over financed and is now pulling in the reins. In other words, they will finance someone that is so far in the red its not even funny and not touch us without 35% into the pot (we have 25% now but leery because of bridging).
So the order still remains, purchase land (will take a bit longer than thought now), design house and learn more in mean-time and then once the land is bought, build it with our own cash over time. Hard nut to swallow but I can wait for the dream. Waited this long. Had many many insights into the usonian lifestyle since then and actually am happy for the wait as we can then really do it ourselves.
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Jeff Myers
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outside in
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I would recommend you look into acquiring the property using the now-popular "rent to buy" method, or what used to be called a land contract. You essentially rent the land for a ten year period (length of time can vary) make improvements to the property until such time that a bank will provide you with a mortgage to buy the land (with your house sitting on top). Many have bee resorting to this old method now that the banks are playing hard to get. Good luck.
It's also possible to find a suitable piece of land with some house or building
already on it. Much easier to finance. I know of a couple of vacation places that have the original shack now being used for guests. You live in now, or store tools and materials in it (probably both) You don't care if the existing house is not what you want. You will either tear it down or re-purpose eventually. Even if it's in the way, you can build around it. You don't want to camp out on your land while you build your dream home anyway. Especially not in Canada!
already on it. Much easier to finance. I know of a couple of vacation places that have the original shack now being used for guests. You live in now, or store tools and materials in it (probably both) You don't care if the existing house is not what you want. You will either tear it down or re-purpose eventually. Even if it's in the way, you can build around it. You don't want to camp out on your land while you build your dream home anyway. Especially not in Canada!
I heard there's a place in T.O. where they had to add another street to an intersection so they could squeeze in two more donut shops! I now live in a place where every freeway exit is required to have a Waffle House, so I guess I can relate.JohnAdams wrote: Interesting conversation regarding land today with agent. He said land cost is usually based off distance to a Tim Hortons (biggest coffee shop in Canada owned by Yum! now). The higher the land cost exponentially closer to timmies. Reason is they have done their homework on population projections. Sort of the Canary in the mine.
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outside in
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I believe that 35% of his capital is going down the tubes to buy a piece of property with a shack on it, and it may not "appraise out."
I have a client that just bought 18 acres on a five year note - paying rent of $1,000 each month with a minimal down-payment. He bought a nice used Airstream in Wisconsin, parked it on the site and is beginning work! Very little down and saving financial resources for use on the project. In five years the project will be complete and he will be looking to obtain a mortgage for a very nice home on a great piece of property - very smart and economical at the same time.
Times like these call for a great deal of imagination in purchasing property.
I have a client that just bought 18 acres on a five year note - paying rent of $1,000 each month with a minimal down-payment. He bought a nice used Airstream in Wisconsin, parked it on the site and is beginning work! Very little down and saving financial resources for use on the project. In five years the project will be complete and he will be looking to obtain a mortgage for a very nice home on a great piece of property - very smart and economical at the same time.
Times like these call for a great deal of imagination in purchasing property.
Update
Bit of an update. Im still await the John Sergeant's book in the mail. Taking forever!
I've been talking to Tim Sutton more and am getting more of a feel for what it will take to build this.
I've revised the floorplan as shown and I do not have a program that will put a 4X4' grid pattern on the plan but you get the idea. I did replace the bathroom by the kitchen with a 2 piece...I am still debating that with my wife if its necessary at all.
I've done a preliminary estimate on materials based on a few things Tim told me. I would say the absolute lowest amount would be around $125K in materials, permits and septic. Land is estimated at $120K for 10 to 30 acres. Realistically I can picture the cost more around $200K for materials and some labour I am not able to do myself. My entire family is excited to help build it actually (or so they say now!)
Even at $200K + $120K , it would be a steal! I sold a house I did in Toronto that was on a 30X100 ft lot, 1500 sq/ft for $300K and if we could have a 10 acre lot with 2500 sqft house here...we are ecstatic!
Anyway, thoughts on plans?
I've been talking to Tim Sutton more and am getting more of a feel for what it will take to build this.
I've revised the floorplan as shown and I do not have a program that will put a 4X4' grid pattern on the plan but you get the idea. I did replace the bathroom by the kitchen with a 2 piece...I am still debating that with my wife if its necessary at all.
I've done a preliminary estimate on materials based on a few things Tim told me. I would say the absolute lowest amount would be around $125K in materials, permits and septic. Land is estimated at $120K for 10 to 30 acres. Realistically I can picture the cost more around $200K for materials and some labour I am not able to do myself. My entire family is excited to help build it actually (or so they say now!)
Even at $200K + $120K , it would be a steal! I sold a house I did in Toronto that was on a 30X100 ft lot, 1500 sq/ft for $300K and if we could have a 10 acre lot with 2500 sqft house here...we are ecstatic!
Anyway, thoughts on plans?
John, this is better. A couple of comments.
With 10 acres of land there is really no point in using the L-shaped plan, which is a result of a city lot and a need to create some private space inside the house and out. When you have your land you may see a number of features that will shape the house. A desirable sloping site, for example, would call for a change in levels inside so the the front entrance and rear terrace would both be at ground level. A beautiful old tree may be used to shade a terrace in the afternoon. Views unique to the site may be to the advantage of particular spaces.
First draw the grid on the contours of the building site, then lay everything on it. This will help you control your alignments and proportions of spaces. All the while think like an artist creating something of beauty. Keeping your material palette to an absolute minimum, select masonry and woods that are comfortable with what you see. Think of how clerestories may be added to light the interior and satisfy exterior volumes. Will the chimney be a lone stick of masonry in the air, or will it be part of a raised and ventilating kitchen roof?
This is a sampling of the many elements that go into a good Usonian. The practical and aesthetic efforts are accomplished at the same time so that when the design is finished it is beautiful as well as functional.
So the house cannot be designed until you have the land. Keep drawing (without a computer) however, so that your family can not only see what you need but what you really don't need, which is essential to the Usonian idea. And you will learn how to get pleasing elevations and sections from the floor plan.
doug k
With 10 acres of land there is really no point in using the L-shaped plan, which is a result of a city lot and a need to create some private space inside the house and out. When you have your land you may see a number of features that will shape the house. A desirable sloping site, for example, would call for a change in levels inside so the the front entrance and rear terrace would both be at ground level. A beautiful old tree may be used to shade a terrace in the afternoon. Views unique to the site may be to the advantage of particular spaces.
First draw the grid on the contours of the building site, then lay everything on it. This will help you control your alignments and proportions of spaces. All the while think like an artist creating something of beauty. Keeping your material palette to an absolute minimum, select masonry and woods that are comfortable with what you see. Think of how clerestories may be added to light the interior and satisfy exterior volumes. Will the chimney be a lone stick of masonry in the air, or will it be part of a raised and ventilating kitchen roof?
This is a sampling of the many elements that go into a good Usonian. The practical and aesthetic efforts are accomplished at the same time so that when the design is finished it is beautiful as well as functional.
So the house cannot be designed until you have the land. Keep drawing (without a computer) however, so that your family can not only see what you need but what you really don't need, which is essential to the Usonian idea. And you will learn how to get pleasing elevations and sections from the floor plan.
doug k