$5000 Fireproof House

[Spritewright]

Hello- my wife and I just purchased house in Denver that was based on plans bought from the Ladies Home Journal ad in April 1907 by a banker who moved from Chicago to Denver. The main structure retains much of the intended design, it's been added onto twice over the last 100 years. Does anyone know where I could find a copy of the $5000 Fireproof Priarie House plans? Anyone know of a good resource and/or community of similiar homeowners? Thanks

Shawn

Denver

[g.dorn]

If I may I'd like to hijack this thread and created a discussion about the Ladies Home Journal Fireproof house for $5000 - aka all concrete house . When I say discussion its more of a critique and fact finding exploration.

Firstly I've been rereading my copy of the Wasmuth porfolio : Frank Lloyd Wright Drawings and Plans - The Early Period.



I thought the Quadruple Block Plan plate XIIIb layout looked pretty interesting then figured that the 5000 fireproof house, seemed to be of a similar design approach ( page wise is nect page in the portfolio) , so I figure that maybe I;; have a go and make a 3D model of this all concrete house.

link to Quadruple Block Plan thread http://wrightchat.savewright.org/viewtopic.php?t=11753

I found a decent scan of the plans, plus 3D views plus a section drawing derived of this basic concept ( 4 square with 'exterior' entry and stairs)
AT
http://ww2020.net/1415-modoc/





I also found a plan which had interior dimensions noted, so I printed it out and overlaid a 2 ft grid over the plan. 2ft chosen as the interior is 30 ft x 30ft, thus 2ft divides nicely and seems to coincide with many of the lines drawn on the plan.



As this is suppose to be a all concrete house, I made a number of assumptions;

1. floor slab nominally 6" thick ( 150mm) which when reinforced as a 2 way slab ought to span 6.0m max - in this case

2. Floor to floor height of 10 ft (3.0m) and FL to ceiling 8 ft (2.4m) this is based on what I could read on the section drawing. -

3. externals walls say 10" ( 300) thick - modern day tilt up is typically 6" (150mm) th - somewhere I read that they were probably 8" (200mm) th - but we'll start with 300 thick and see how that goes

4. for stair o/a height of 3000 - either 16 risers @ 187mm or 15 risers @ 200mm - but looking at the plan and counting the treads I get 7 + landing+ 1+ landing+ 3 = 14 risers = 214mm each
treads look like 1/2 unit (2 ft) = 1 ft each = 300mm

5. Basement walls probably 450 thick, fireplace walls support underneath

6. footings min 5ft below natural ground level

7. allow 6' for roof slab - probably has some sort of fall for rain water runoff - not sure if thick enough for snow loads though

with all that I came up with this

street view ( to match wright drawing)



side view (to match wright drawing)



Section - through lower stair



3D section - thought upper stair



no windows yet

but I have some questions that others maybe more familiar with

[g.dorn]

I reckon the stairs is not correct

here is plan view of model


Upper Floor


If the floor to floor height assumption is correct, which means that the treads are either 200 or 214mm each.
The drawings indicate 4 risers from the entry to the Main living floor - thus thus equals 800 or 860mm

but if you look at the Wright hand drawn 3D street view, the entry door head is only say 300mm below the trellis roof line - which aligns with the top of the living room windows
I figure this is 2400 above Living FFL thus 2400 + 800 = 3200 door is 2100 thus 1100mm

something is not quite right with the stairs risers!

anyone got any clues about the likely stairs configuration and floor to floor heights.

[SDR]

Hello again, Mr Dorn. I support your effort to model the "Fireproof House."

I will read the Wallla Walla 2020 piece when I have time. Surely the most authentic material concerning the $5000 house would be Wright's own drawings ?

https://library.artstor.org/#/search/Wr ... =1;size=48

Granted, there are no section drawings in that brief file. But Mr Wright adapted the design for a couple of clients; here is the Stockman file, which includes a section. Granted, a basement and a hipped roof have been added to the original conception---but it's still Wright:

https://library.artstor.org/#/search/Wr ... =1;size=48

The Stephen M B Hunt version of the house, built in LaGrange, IL, in 1907, is according to W A Storrer "the best-constructed example" of the design. Unfortunately, a different, single-story house for the same client is the only design found under that name in the Artstor file of drawings.

S

[SDR]

The article by Stephen Wilen is not a wholly accurate account where it comes to Wright; the architect did not, for instance, stay in Europe for four years following his 1909 departure. But the most painful parts of the story come when the author claims that the Stone house is at least as faithful a rendering of the Wright design as are any of the other built versions of the house. He writes:

"Is there an authentic Frank Lloyd Wright house in Walla Walla? From a technical standpoint, the answer to that question is no. However, one could certainly pettifog over this. There were a number of houses built throughout the United States in the years following 1907 that are documented to have been based on the fireproof house design featured in Ladies Home Journal in April 1907. It is ironic that the Stone house is not acknowledged anywhere – so far as could be ascertained – as a part of this group; arguably its exterior reflects Wright’s intention more authentically than several of the other such houses. In addition to considerable exterior alterations, all of those for which the roof can be viewed show a hipped rather than flat roof, and not one of them was built as fireproof, using instead stucco plaster over wood lath, as does the Stone house."

The heavy molding circling the house immediately beneath the eaves, and the openings punched through the walls rather than rising to the roof, are just the most egregious failures of authenticity. One suspects, as well, that vertical dimensions have been exaggerated in the Stone house; whatever numbers can be made out in the reproductions of the Walla Walla house drawings should not be relied upon to reflect Wright's specification.

S

[SDR]

From the article:




If the Stone house's roof is too thick, yours is too thin. Remember that the roof actually drains to the center; in addition, there is a space between the second-floor ceilings and the underside of the roof slab, with small openings placed in rows just beneath the latter and above the second-floor windows, operable for venting the resulting space.

A similar arrangement was provided in a house design for Harry Brown, in 1906:

[Paul Ringstrom]

SDR,
Can you post a floor plan for the Brown House?

[SDR]

First and second floor plans of the second design for Harry Brown, Genesco, IL, 1906. As usual the images can be enlarged by opening in a new tab (right mouse click).

[g.dorn]

wow ,SDR, thanks for providing all this additional info.
One of the differences I noted between the all concrete Ladies home Journal building (LHJ), and the Stockman's house, is the GF fireplace has been reduced to accommodate the extra number of stair treads.

So either the number of treads in the LHJ all concrete house is less, therefore the Floor to Floor height is less, or the design wasn't quite right, which was corrected in subsequent built versions of this concept.

So was there a consistent stair configuration that Wright used on most for his buildings, or did they vary project to project and did they follow the standard formulae of 2R+G = 24 to 25" or R + G = 17.5"

[g.dorn]

and if the Brown sections are anything to go by, the Floor to floor is 9'1" and UF ceiling is 8 ft, looked like doors and picture rail are at 7 ft for both floors.

I'll try a version to that configuration - its seems more likely to work out neatly.

[Tom]

Cool thread.
Original design is a real gem.
I wonder how it would have been finished on the interior. Drawings imply the walls were concrete - no added insul. layer.
That is one frigid house during certain months of the year.

[SDR]

No; the walls were to be plastered over metal mesh, according to the Wilen article.

I'm quite sure no two Wright stairs were exactly the same---nor can you go by a hand-drawn view drawing to calculate riser heights, etc. It is axiomatic that each drawing of an unbuilt Wright design will not accord exactly with other such drawings of the same project; every Wright project was a work in process from the moment of conception to---and beyond---the completion of construction.

S

[SDR]

A transcription of the Ladies' Home Journal article introducing Wright's house. The text no doubt was supplied by him; read carefully for the full specification:

[Tom]

Wow - thanks for posting that.
What a beautiful description.
Only heat source in the house is the fireplace?

[SDR]

The specification lists a furnace . . .

S