Working Drawing Research?

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:20 pm

Bemused about the lack of published working drawing documentation for Wright's work. The FLlW Preservation Trust website states that there are 13 sets of working drawings in the AIA archives in Washington. The AIA website states that this material is now with the American Architectural Foundation, but the website for the AAF contains no reference to this that I could find. I've just emailed info @ the AAF about this, yet think somebody here probably knows a something about doing this.

I've got the complete works, Affordable Dreams, and Seargent. I'm looking for copies or photo copies of original working drawings. I've gone through through all the online material from HABS.

It seems my next step is to go to an archive itself like the Robie House in Chicago. Last thing I want to do is the archive at Taliesin, just don't have the bucks for that.

Jeff Myers · Post by **Jeff Myers** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 2:22 pm

Tom in the 1959 Architectural Record there is a page that shows which projects were selected and archived by the AIA.
I don't remember the whole list but one is I think this is some of them Robie, Price Tower, The Guggenheim.

SDR · Post by **SDR** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:33 pm

Tom, from the time period you seem to be interested in, I'd suggest the best source of published drawings would be the 1985 A.D.A Edita Monograph 6 (1937-1941). Copies come up periodically for sale. Monograph 5 covers 1924-36, which gives you the earliest Usonians (Jacobs and its forebears) and Fallingwater. Many of the drawings in these volumes are large enough to read most of the notes and many of the dimensions, with a glass or by scanning.

http://savewright.org/wright_chat/viewtopic.php?t=3824

SDR

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:04 pm

Sorry, should have been more clear. I've got the Monographs. And still the Monographs leave stuff out. For example with the Monographs you cannot learn how the Pew House is framed or the Affleck House. Nowhere have I seen rebar diagrams for Fallingwater. Another example, the Pope house, that entry cantilever (or Rosenbaum for that matter) the HABS working drawings show a 17 ft steel channel concealed in the roof, but what ties down the supported end? I've heard that it's a threaded steel rod bolted to the flange that extends to and is embedded in the floor slab but I don't know. I've seen some of John Eiflers drawings on the Jacobs house and they were very helpful.
It does seem a little odd to me with all the publishing on Wright that an in depth look into issues like this is not available. Years ago the Home and Studio published a long format spiral bound book on the restoration. I'm surprised that more work like that hasn't been done revealing all the major dramatic structural issues of at least some of his best work. I'm sure the Preservation Trust could do something like that with Robie, no? I would LOVE to have a book on Robie showing all the steel and all the masonry and all the connections and bearing points. The Monograph is pretty good on Robie, it just really wets one's desire to see it all. ...I'm just blowing off a little steam here.

Deke · Post by **Deke** » Sun Jun 05, 2011 9:07 pm

Come to sunny LA and lose yourself in the FLW binders at the Getty Research Institute. Everything you could ask for and more.

Deke

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:15 am

Deke,
Can you explain more about that? I've been on the Getty website but that was difficult to understand at first go. Have you been there and gone through these binders?

Wait ...I went back to the Getty site and found the FLlW port. Hmm, still, 8x10 photostats of working drawings? Can you see anything? That seems pretty small to me. Are you able to read drawing notes, material call outs?

Reidy · Post by **Reidy** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:06 am

The Getty has copies of the Taliesin West archives on microfiche; I don't believe it's all online. You can go there in person, by appointment, and do all the research you want. They'll also send paper copies for copying costs ($.10 / pg when I used it in 91).

I've seen plenty of working drawings in print here and there. Sweeney's Wright in Hollywood, for the textile block buildings and projects, is one example that comes to mind. For the non-technical reader they are less interesting than photos and renderings, so you don't see so many.

outside in · Post by **outside in** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:13 am

Tom, I would like to caution you that much of what you're looking for may not exist. Wright made a lot of decisions on site and with addenda that may have gotten lost through the years. He purportedly had a drafting table in the back of his lincoln when he made site visits to Johnson Wax and would produce drawings at the job site for details, etc.

At one point I recall looking at the working drawings of Sullivan's bank in Wisconsin and realized he drew every detail, unlike the working drawings for the Unitarian Meeting House that looked like a high school draftsman did the drawings - a world of difference.

Deke · Post by **Deke** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 11:37 am

Twenty years ago or more the Getty paid for the photographing of all the drawings in the FLW archives. The Getty has a set and the Foundation has a set. These are kept in over a hundred three ring binders in the Special Collections reading room. So you can pull a binder off the shelves and look at the drawings in chronological order. They are 8x10 photos of drawings so even with a magnifying glass there are limits to the details you can see. There is some talk of doing the whole process over again only digitally scanning the drawings.

Deke

Roderick Grant · Post by **Roderick Grant** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:10 pm

As to your question about the rebar at Fallingwater, that was a bone of contention with FLW ever after. Engineers that Kaufmann hired said there was not enough rebar, and Bob Mosher, the apprentice who was on site at the time, concurred, so more rebar was added, much to FLW's chagrin. Years later, Mosher bragged that the house still stood because he authorized the additional rebar. Whatever detail drawings from Taliesin you might dig up are unlikely to be accurate. But possibly Lynda Waggoner, site curator at FW, could be of help. She can be reached at through FW website.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:15 pm

Reidy
Never heard of Sweeny's book. The Amazon description looked very good. Thanks. Anything else you'd recommend? It does seem like there would be enough market space for more technically oriented books on Wright, but I feel this way about architectural publishing in general.

Outside In
Never heard the story about drafting in the back of the Lincoln. Where did you see the Unity Temple working drawings?

Deke
Thank you, I hope they do digitize them. I love having access to the Pope drawings on HABS.

Roderick Grant
I'll send Lynda an email. Good suggestion.

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 5:09 pm

SDR,
Because of another post I just realized that 'The Complete Works' and 'The Monographs' are two different publications. It's been a while since I've opened a volume of the Monographs, but this discussion prompted me to and there is indeed a lot there.

SDR · Post by **SDR** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:00 pm

Yes, there's quite a difference between the two publications, each having its merits. I believe that some readers were under the impression that the ADA monographs represented a complete catalog of Wright's work. Rather, there is a healthy representative of built work, and a smattering of the many unbuilt projects. In neither case is the documentation complete; each entry may contain both early and more recent photos of built work, and drawings from any point in the design process, without sufficient labeling to know where in the process any particular document belongs.

Still, it is by far the richest source I know of for reproductions of Taliesin drawings -- at a size which makes them meaningful to the interested and knowledgeable reader. The Taschen volumes, while containing many images never before published, cannot make that claim.

SDR

Tom · Post by **Tom** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:15 pm

Yep, I thought the ADA monographs were the complete works. That is indeed what I thought. Hmmm. Appreciate the explanation.

Roderick Grant · Post by **Roderick Grant** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 3:21 pm

One advantage of Taschen is that it's indexed! Finding projects in the Monographs can be very time consuming.

"The Details of Modern Architecture" by Edward R. Ford (MIT 1990) covers quite a range of buildings by many architects, with many by FLW, including Fallingwater (pp 339-343). Axonometrics go inside roofs, ceilings, walls and floors to reveal how the buildings were put together. Other houses included: Winslow, Heurtley, Glasner, Willets, DD Martin, Robie and Larkin from the Oak Park years (pp 161-201) and Storer, Jacobs I, Hanna and Johnson Wax from the Usonian Era (pp 321-349). On an earlier post, Paul Harding had a negative comment about the accuracy of the book, but was not specific, so there may be a grain or two of salt. I do know that the Willets living room/bedroom wing is framed in steel, adroitly tucked into the woodwork so as not to show (except in the basement). This is based on a lecture by Thomas Heinz, who had done restoration work on the house and had revealing photos. This fact is not included in the book, so it probably cannot be considered definition. Yet there is a plethora of information of the sort you seem to be seeking. There is also a sequel to the book that I don't have, but I believe there may be more FLW in that one.