Wright Chat

I have no wish to divert the posts relating to the impressive cantilevers on some of the Prairie houses, and hence have opted to establish a new thread.

Study of the ground plan of the William and Mary Palmer house indicates that the roof over the living room cantilevers in excess of that of the Robie house. Can somebody confirm that the span is 25 feet please?

Laurie... When I modeled Palmer I believe the Cantilever does extend more than Robie.. Anyone confirm or deny my statement.. To my eye it does look that way and when I modeled it.

How about the second floor balcony of Fallingwater? That appears to extend about 20' beyond the supporting stone columns in the living room.

On a visit to Fallingwater I remember the steel window and door mullions as being quite substantial, and thinking that at least some of the balcony weight (thinking of the steel mullions at Walter in Iowa) was transferred through the living room floor to its concrete and stone piers below. If this is true, is there is a bit if visual deception here?

Doug K

Goetsch-Winkler, Sturges, Edwards and the Lindholm Service Station have some pretty impressive cantilevers as well, within the realm of the Usonian period.

I don't know how far this extends out, but it fairly impressive in regards to the size of the home.

Rosenbaum house, Florence, AL

Roderick Grant wrote:How about the second floor balcony of Fallingwater? That appears to extend about 20' beyond the supporting stone columns in the living room.

Although it's true that the south end of that second floor balcony is located about 20 feet past the foundation support points under the Living Room, this balcony itself does not have any 20-foot cantilever. It bears upon steel posts that occur in the Living Room window wall array behind the seat along the south wall and is cantilevered past that line of support by about 6 feet. This exerts load on the south parapet wall that extends the whole length of the main level. This parapet (beam) with the L.R. windows and support posts on top of it is tied onto ends of cantilevered Living Room floor beams that extend about 14 feet from their support points. This is one element that had drooped so alarmingly – at its east and west terrace ends. I'm not looking at it as I write this, but I think Edgar Kaufmann jr's book Fallingwater shows these structural aspects quite clearly.

WJS

Addressing Laurie's initial question, and using Storrer's plan drawing with its scale indication as a guide, I see the roof at Palmer extending 17 feet to its apex from the twin mirror-image parallelogram-shaped piers. The Robie cantilever seems to be about 21 feet, as noted elsewhere.

(If Jeff's model is based on real dimensions, he would be able presumably to provide that number -- and not just affirm an eyeball estimate ?)

The Rosenbaum carport extends approximately 19 feet beyond the brick pier of the tool storage unit -- again according to Storrer's measured drawing.

SDR

wjsaia appears to be correct in his statements and measurements regarding the Fallingwater cantilevers.
The locations of supports can be easily seen in this section drawing; there are a pair of stone columns
extending from the waterline to the living room ceiling, beyond which (to the left) everything is cantilevered.

The four posts within the LR window band, supporting the bedroom terrace above, are seen in this photo:

SDR I have it as just a little over 25' But if you are in Sketchup it can be a little less than that. I believe all the photos and every source and plan I believe what I have is accurate...

25 feet from where to where, Jeff ? I wonder why the considerable difference from what I see on Storrer's measured plan ?

SDR

That would be from door ( between piers, to tip but I might of messed that up considering now I am staring at the plan realized Storrer Draws the outside line so the outside line is that but it is different than what I have now but to busy to fix it .

The cantilevered carport at the Shavin house is quite extensive as well....similar to Rosenbaum as noted in the posting above by hyponraygun......

EP

wjsaia wrote: This is one element that had drooped so alarmingly – at its east and west terrace ends.

Failure to consider negative camber for settlement at the first floor cantilever is another interesting aspect of the engineering at Fallingwater contributing to the almost 7" droop.

Do you mean that the terraces-cantilevered-off-a-cantilever could have been constructed "high," with the expectation that they would settle with time to a more or less straight line ?

SDR