Wright Chat

Tom, you can enlarge any image on this page to its maximum size: right-click on the image, select "open in new tab," select image URL that opens at the top of your screen.

Usonian trellises often---but not always---mimic in their interior fascias the house fascia. Here are two examples---Hanna, and Bott:

Two houses designed at the same time as Goetsch-Winckler are included in Monograph 6; section drawings of Hause and Garrison show the trellis in each case. Note that the outermost fascia trim is thicker than the others. Goetsch-Winckler as built appears to take the original Jacobs eave as its model.

Jacobs:


The Garrison trellis appears to be built around a double header. Perhaps G-W is similar, but with a single 2x4 header as a core ?

Garrison:


Hause:


© 1986 A.D.A. EDITA Tokyo Co., Ltd. and by the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation

RE Trellis

Im wondering if the trellis is actually a single 100 x 50mm , then clad with fascia size board- say 145 x 20mm (ex 150 x 25)

that Jacob I drawing of fascia I think reads 7/8" thickness x say 6" high ( ie 150 x 23mm)

here is a screenshot of that idea - as a partial section to reveal the inner workings - compared to photo

GW trellis section 3D by g dorn, on Flickr

Whats the unit height of Goetsch-Winckler ?

my model is currently on 12 "- 300mm - which puts the GF ceiling @ 1800 ht ( 6 x 300)- which I think is a bit low - pariticularly for me (1816mm)

Regarding the trellis section above:
I think the top side could not be left as a trough.
It would be nice to know how it was originally capped off.

(SDR - thanks for the image enlargement tip. Can't believe I've never used that as long as I've been running this computer)

SDR provided wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:51 pm



snip

If the note for carport roof says

Joists 3- 2 x 4 @ 2' oc 6' 7.75" from Mat

then, if the ceiling lining is 12mm plywood (1/2") then the ceiling height is 6' 7.25 = 2050mm

does that look right?

Here are some vertical dimensions that I've been able to find on the original plans in the book: Affordable Dreams.
I've not been able to locate the exact unit height.
I've not been able to find the ceiling height of the large central room called "The Studio" on the drawings.

The low ceiling heights are 7'-0" (2.1366 Meters) bedrooms, entry, fire alcove.

Outside of the house on the entrance walkway at the glass window wall the height from slab to bottom of eave is 6'-6"

(That's a 6" difference from the interior ceiling, which is not possible unless the lower 2X4 is eliminated from the interior portion of the joist.
This might be the case. Interior shots of the kitchen show a 4" to 6" wood cased header above the kitchen clerestory glass. That header is not visible to me in exterior shots and on the elevation drawing the top of the glass of that clerestory seems to butt directly into the bottom of the eave with no cased header.
However, the sections in the book do not conform to that description. They show 3-laminated 2x4 joist throughout. Yet, these sections are altenative versions of what was built because they show the kitchen ceiling height the same height as the large central room, and they also show stairs going down to a basement. So they are not accurate to as built conditions.)

Outside the house as you walk down the walkway straight ahead is a brick wall, beautifully placed that prevents one from seeing the bedroom continuation of the house. That brick wall from the slab to it's top is 7'-7" - this is also the top of the lower roofline.

From the top of that brick wall to the top of the roof of the large central room is 2-2"
Thus the total height of the house measured from the slab is 9'-9"

juankbedoya wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:51 pmAm I the only one who sees Van der Rohe's Barcelona Pavilion influence here..?

I was wrong - sort of.
It seems that others have indeed found comparison between the Barcelona Pavillion and G/W, namely one Anatole Senkevitch Jr,
professor of architectural history at the University of Michigan.
He wrote a contribution to the book Affordable Dreams and goes in to this comparison.
I think he is correct in his arguments.
I promise to transcribe this for you tomorrow.

I've changed the lower roof framing to option B, which is following the above drawn detail more closely. I think this looks a lot simpler - but its asking alot for a 150 UB and a double header to do!



any thoughts?

g.dorn wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:32 pm

looks like from this view that the Studio roof is not quite right - I'll adjust that too

Good lord: Only now are you asking what the vertical unit is ? It's 13", as are all board-and-batten Usonians following Jacobs---where it was initially 12" until the man thought twice. It was later drawn and built to a 12 1/2" unit. This explains measurements like 6'-6", 7'-7", etc.

I really don't see what that furthest-outboard piece of steel, parallel to the end of the roof, could be contributing, beyond stiffening that edge of the roof (i.e., keeping the rafters in plane). An L-shaped construct is essentially a lever, depending entirely on the resistance to torque of the supporting member of the L, to keep the supported leg from deflecting ?

Your section of the trellis I take to be essentially correct, with the exception that there would be little if any depression at the center on top---for reasons related to weathering. Note again the Jacobs section: this was the standard detail for dealing with the edge of the roof plane, without resorting to metal flashing, on all flat-roofed Usonians from the beginning (and which with one exception have all been augmented with standard metal L-flashing).

S

Here is revised Section with entry/living with dimensions

Ive based the Units on Entry height of 2100mm / 6 units = 350mm/unit = 13.7 inch - thus in , living 8 units 2800mm - or there abouts.

If the units are 13" = 330mm, then 6 units = 1950mm= 6'6" , 8 units - 2640mm = 8'8"

I can change the ceiling heights to what ever

GW sheet Section CC A1 by g dorn, on Flickr

note : if you open image in a new tab, you ought to be able to zoom in read and the notes
hope this helps

Now the next part is the clerestorey framing. I wonder how close the construction of this is too the drawings we have?

Like usual Mr Wright appears to be freeing the corners, so structural supports are ...... somewhere?

Im starting the get the feeling that Mr Wright used Fascia's as a principal structural member- which is then covered by a weathering + replaceable piece.

I was just looking for clues about the millwork details, and looking at the owners photos, they have a drawing sheet on the kitchen cabinetry, which has a note which says

on plan
see standard sheet for Perforated board ( see sheet 4 for stool and anchor for beam above)

on elevation
...in around strutting beam

see https://www.flickr.com/photos/14960965@ ... otostream/

Is there a sheet 4 anywhere?

FYI
Architect of the repairs noted in Old House Journal Mac Reuter of Ann Arbor

http://www.rueterarchitects.com/project.php?p=30




email sent asking him to contribute to this thread.

bugger - looks like they have removed the images from their website