It's pathetically easy for the winners to call the losers "sore" -- no matter the gravity of what the losers protest. One wag called Trump a "sore winner," for his continued demonization of Hillary Clinton and her supporters after he claimed victory. And that was weeks before he took a hissy fit over claims, supported by photographs, that his inauguration crowd was smaller than his predecessor's !
Mom, I concur with your objections to Mrs Clinton. Her weaknesses no doubt contributed to her, and our, loss.
Oz, you are more than welcome to comment on American politics; indeed the world is doing so at present, and for good reason. But you are incorrect in your belief that Mr Trump won the majority of votes; by a number generally agreed to be about 2.8 million, his opponent won the popular vote, though our electoral college system gave him the victory.
Today we have his nominee for Supreme Court in hand, a decent man who nevertheless may work to take away a woman's right to choose abortion, a right guaranteed by the historic Roe v Wade decision. This follows almost a year spent without a full Court, the result of a scandalous and insupportable decision by the right wing of our Senate to block President Obama's nominee, not even allowing the usual and mandated hearings on the matter to be held.
SDR
Donald Trump, Donghia and interior design
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ozwrightfan
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:38 pm
- Location: Sydney Australia
Slavery and the College:
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/11/22 ... y-orig.cnn
The obvious questions:
Who benefits from the system now?
Who would fight to keep it in place, though it is undemocratic?
Why was it not eliminated after the abolishment of slavery, and how has it survived for so many years?
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/11/22 ... y-orig.cnn
The obvious questions:
Who benefits from the system now?
Who would fight to keep it in place, though it is undemocratic?
Why was it not eliminated after the abolishment of slavery, and how has it survived for so many years?
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Roderick Grant
- Posts: 11815
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am
If the thing had gone the other way, the Dems would not have any trouble with the electoral college. The EC is one of the few aspects of this country as a republic that remain. If slavery was to blame for its invention, they didn't take into account the side effects or unintended consequences.
SDR, the entire 2.8M extra votes Hillary got were from California, heavy on Frisco. But it amounts to 2.4% of the entire vote. To go to the trouble of amending the Constitution in order to assuage the anger of Pelosi-land would be extreme. It also would never pass, since 38 states would have to vote in favor of passage. That won't happen; it would fly in the face of reason to the states that benefit from the way things are. Your only option now, it would seem, is Cal-Exit.
Mod, I agree that Sanders' supporters make up a large part of the gangs causing chaos in the streets, but they brought it on themselves by not voting. They could have clinched it for Clinton, and they didn't. Much the better for the country. Bernie should have renounced the DNC, and run as an Independent; he may have given Trump serious trouble in a 3-way.
Oz, I agree with you also. It's over. The losers are venting in ways no one on the right has ever behaved. When Kennedy won by rigging the counts in Texas and Illinois, there was no protest, even though everyone knew what had happened. The Democrats are graceless.
SDR, the entire 2.8M extra votes Hillary got were from California, heavy on Frisco. But it amounts to 2.4% of the entire vote. To go to the trouble of amending the Constitution in order to assuage the anger of Pelosi-land would be extreme. It also would never pass, since 38 states would have to vote in favor of passage. That won't happen; it would fly in the face of reason to the states that benefit from the way things are. Your only option now, it would seem, is Cal-Exit.
Mod, I agree that Sanders' supporters make up a large part of the gangs causing chaos in the streets, but they brought it on themselves by not voting. They could have clinched it for Clinton, and they didn't. Much the better for the country. Bernie should have renounced the DNC, and run as an Independent; he may have given Trump serious trouble in a 3-way.
Oz, I agree with you also. It's over. The losers are venting in ways no one on the right has ever behaved. When Kennedy won by rigging the counts in Texas and Illinois, there was no protest, even though everyone knew what had happened. The Democrats are graceless.
I have been opposed to the Electoral College ever since I discovered its existence, long before it had any impact on the outcome of an election in my lifetime. I have also been opposed to the death penalty, and every war, declared and undeclared, that the US has been involved with in my lifetime. And I am opposed to the notion of American exceptionalism. And more than anything, I am opposed to Fascism.
It is cynical and narrow minded to assume that ones opinions are only determined by involvement in an outdated two party system, or that a critical analysis of the Electoral College and fear of the new administration automatically makes one a Democrat, graceless, whiny adolescent, kvetching Clintonista, sore loser, etc.
It is cynical and narrow minded to assume that ones opinions are only determined by involvement in an outdated two party system, or that a critical analysis of the Electoral College and fear of the new administration automatically makes one a Democrat, graceless, whiny adolescent, kvetching Clintonista, sore loser, etc.
Last edited by peterm on Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Roderick, this is not a joke and your comment to Peter is condescending. Here is a list of signs of fascism that I suggest you review:
EARLY WARNING SIGNS OF FASCISM
1. Powerful and continuing nationalism
2. Disdain for human rights
3. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
4. Rampant *
5. Controlled mass media
6. Obsession with national security
7. Religion and government intertwined
8. Corporate power protected
9. Labor power suppressed
10. Disdain for intellectual and the arts
11. Obsession with crime and punishment
12. Rampant cronyism and corruption
check, check check....!
I was a small business owner for 17 years until the weight of knowing our government was using torture in our name pushed me to full time activism on peace and social justice issues. I had hoped it was a dark, unethical and illegal chapter in our past but now we hear trump insisting that he’ll do “worse than waterboarding� and his statement in the White House that “torture absolutely works.� This despite experts saying information obtained under torture is unreliable and I hope we all can agree is morally reprehensible. You don't have a problem with this?
note the asterisk is not my doing but replaced "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of *"
EARLY WARNING SIGNS OF FASCISM
1. Powerful and continuing nationalism
2. Disdain for human rights
3. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
4. Rampant *
5. Controlled mass media
6. Obsession with national security
7. Religion and government intertwined
8. Corporate power protected
9. Labor power suppressed
10. Disdain for intellectual and the arts
11. Obsession with crime and punishment
12. Rampant cronyism and corruption
check, check check....!
I was a small business owner for 17 years until the weight of knowing our government was using torture in our name pushed me to full time activism on peace and social justice issues. I had hoped it was a dark, unethical and illegal chapter in our past but now we hear trump insisting that he’ll do “worse than waterboarding� and his statement in the White House that “torture absolutely works.� This despite experts saying information obtained under torture is unreliable and I hope we all can agree is morally reprehensible. You don't have a problem with this?
note the asterisk is not my doing but replaced "prejudice, stereotyping, or discrimination, typically against women, on the basis of *"
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Roderick Grant
- Posts: 11815
- Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am
Mod, I think you are way overboard in your concerns if you really think we are on the road to Fascism, which hasn't had success since Mussolini and Hitler were around 77 years ago. If you believe Trump is somehow analogous to either of those two tyrants, that's just sad. If Trump goes overboard, Congress will rein him back in or get rid of him; they're not entirely on board with his administration. But I believe that the worries of so many are grossly exaggerated by an unrelentingly aggressive opposition, a lot of overheated rhetoric from the youth and a press that is in disarray. If you look to such sources as SNL or Bill Maher for information, that, too, is unfortunate. Satire is propaganda masquerading as humor.
We'll simply have to forge ahead, I guess, against a singular headwind. I add this list of 7 techniques Trump uses for controlling the media (headline, SF Chronicle Sunday magazine, 12/4/16, by left-wing rational thinker and former US secretary of labor [they don't capitalize it] Robert Reich:
1. Berate the media (i.e., at a November meeting with major news media anchors and executives. An attendee later said Trump "truly doesn't seem to understand the First Amendment. He thinks we're supposed to say what he says and that's it.")
2. Blacklist critical media (Washington Post before the election, NY Times after)
3. Turn the public against the media ("lying," "disgusting," "dishonest" press)
4. Condemn satirical or critical comments (see reaction to Pence's reception @ "Hamilton," to Saturday Night Live sketches, etc)
5. Threaten the media directly ("One of the things I'm going to do if I win ... I'm going to open up our libel laws [sic] so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.")
6. Limit media access (lack of news conferences; blocked media from traveling with him in the campaign)
7. Bypass the media and communicate with the public directly:
i.e., Twitter, and videos. "Aides say Trump has expressed interest in continuing to hold the large rallies that were a staple of his candidacy. They say he likes the instant gratification and adulation that the cheering crowds provide."
SDR
1. Berate the media (i.e., at a November meeting with major news media anchors and executives. An attendee later said Trump "truly doesn't seem to understand the First Amendment. He thinks we're supposed to say what he says and that's it.")
2. Blacklist critical media (Washington Post before the election, NY Times after)
3. Turn the public against the media ("lying," "disgusting," "dishonest" press)
4. Condemn satirical or critical comments (see reaction to Pence's reception @ "Hamilton," to Saturday Night Live sketches, etc)
5. Threaten the media directly ("One of the things I'm going to do if I win ... I'm going to open up our libel laws [sic] so when they write purposely negative and horrible and false articles, we can sue them and win lots of money.")
6. Limit media access (lack of news conferences; blocked media from traveling with him in the campaign)
7. Bypass the media and communicate with the public directly:
i.e., Twitter, and videos. "Aides say Trump has expressed interest in continuing to hold the large rallies that were a staple of his candidacy. They say he likes the instant gratification and adulation that the cheering crowds provide."
SDR
The real damage will be wrought by his appointees and nominees: a Secretary of State who, having left Exxon Mobil in far worse shape than he found it ten years earlier, will be motivated to make nice with Russia in hopes of salvaging the crucial Arctic oil options put out of reach following the existing sanctions; a Supreme Court nominee who believes that corporations are persons and who, with Trump's second Court pick, would likely move to reverse Roe v Wade.
SDR
SDR
Trump has said that he is now implementing his campaign promises. Unfortunately many people took them as campaign rhetoric. One of which is selling off Federal Lands to pay for the national debt. That will be a national tragedy and the money will be rapidly burnt up as an offset to reduced taxes for the wealthy, which of course benefits him, his children, and his billionaire cabinet.
Paul Harding FAIA Restoration Architect for FLW's 1901 E. Arthur Davenport House, 1941 Lloyd Lewis House, 1952 Glore House | www.harding.com | LinkedIn
A reduction in corporate taxes and taxes on the very wealthy will have trickle down effects.
Most of the low income housing in NJ for the elderly, disadvantaged, and the poor is funded via the sale of tax credits to corporations and the very wealthy who themselves are sometimes incorporated. In anticipation of this action, the market for the sale of these credits is dropping, which will mean a decrease in the funding of these projects. I have more than one significant project being threatened with cancellation because of this.
This action will harm the construction and A&E industries which are primarily middle class staffed.
Most of the low income housing in NJ for the elderly, disadvantaged, and the poor is funded via the sale of tax credits to corporations and the very wealthy who themselves are sometimes incorporated. In anticipation of this action, the market for the sale of these credits is dropping, which will mean a decrease in the funding of these projects. I have more than one significant project being threatened with cancellation because of this.
This action will harm the construction and A&E industries which are primarily middle class staffed.