Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

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SDR
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by SDR »

No: the kitchen and carport share the same ceiling, don't they ? The roof is continuous, anyway. Through the window you can detect the slight deflection of the carport extremity, in the early interior photo.

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g.dorn
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by g.dorn »

This is Vandusen thread not goetch winkler thats here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4222&start=90

my comment is about Vandusen scheme 1 and 3 - both unbuilt
G Dorn
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SDR
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by SDR »

Sorry---I was following Tom's lead; he mentioned G-W in connection with carport steel, and I ran with it. You're right; it's distracting to have different projects introduced . . .

S

Tom
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by Tom »

VanDusen:
g.dorn wrote:
Mon Aug 30, 2021 12:32 pm
Image
I think the steel beam in question, from the fireplace to the carport edge, carries a brick wall as shown in the section above.
One might expect a change in ceiling height at this point too but that is not the case.
Ceiling height of workspace and dining room is the same from what I can tell.

...and yes it does appear that Wright has included a light shelf at the bottom edge of the beam/wall and wrapping around the workspace.

Tom
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by Tom »

Image

Here is a section through the beam itself.
There are three ceiling heights at VanDusen afterall.
This brings attention to that one layer 2x4 roof over the workspace - extremely vulnerable construction.
A high wind could peel that thing back in one second, no?
I'd be scared to walk on it.
Workspace ceiling at G/W is a two layer 2x4 thickness.

P.S.
Note how the workspace floor slab is supported over the span of the basement with "expanded metal mesh" reinforcing.
I wonder just exactly what that is?

DRN
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by DRN »

Expanded steel mesh is made by perforating a thin sheet of steel and then stretching the steel sheet. Diamond shaped openings result. The material interlocks well with concrete, stucco, or plaster. Light gauges of the mesh with crimped diamonds are often called “wire lath” when used with plaster or stucco.

SDR
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by SDR »

Could expanded metal mesh be expected to operate in tension as well as does (thin) textured rebar, for instance ? It couldn't possibly take tensile loads across one of its two axes . . . the axis along which it was expanded.

S

Tom
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by Tom »

Interesting question.
I guess it depends upon how it's perforated in the first place.
Here it seems to be acting in two-way tension now that you mention it.

g.dorn
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by g.dorn »

Tom wrote
P.S.
Note how the workspace floor slab is supported over the span of the basement with "expanded metal mesh" reinforcing.
I wonder just exactly what that is?
That as very interesting observation you made Tom

I'm wondering if Mr Wright was experimenting with "Ferro Cemento "- which I understand is what was used at the Johnson Wax Admin Building for columns.

see this article which explains the johnsonwax columns
https://moodle2.units.it/pluginfile.php ... Column.pdf

Ferro Cemento was quite popular in the 30's - pioneered by Italian Engineer Pier Luigi Nervi - who did some magnificent Aircraft Hangers and the like.
FYI Ferro Cemento was used to make the roof tiles /Shells for the Sydney Opera House

Ferro Cement being a high ratio of cement to steel- resulting in a thin shell like element which is very strong once set. its also very mouldable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrocement
G Dorn
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g.dorn
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by g.dorn »

now this section
- notice how high the fire place lintel is - 4 units ! (1320mm) - strewth - half way up the wall

and the main beam spanning full length of living roof - 6 1/2 Units 26ft (7.9m), supporting both lower and upper roofs is single 10" x 3/8 steel flinch plate bolted to a 12 x 2" and 8 x 2" timber beam.

Image
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g.dorn
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by g.dorn »

And if you caompare this framing plan with that section - I see differences

1. on the framing plan - deck over window wall has rafters going in wrong direction

Image

Image
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SDR
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by SDR »

I don't remember seeing a Usonian roof framing plan showing the fascia of a lower step in the soffit---like that in the plan above, if I'm not misreading the drawing. It makes a "decorative border" at the roof outline . . .

S

g.dorn
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by g.dorn »

So I've started a model of Version 3 (my naming)

an I've discovered a part of the lower roof framing which is not documented well - (in my opinion), in that the roof adjacent to the terrace seems to have an extended cantilever with minimal support and would thus deflect quite a bit a and fairly quickly , I reckon .

Image


I am thinking that the steel flinch plate thats over the window wall, as indicated in the living room SECTION Drawing, continues past the corner wall and cantilevers to meet up with either I beam of flinch plate that comes out from the Bathroom brickwork

like this.

Image

Does this seem reasonable and within the realm of typical Taliesin detailing?
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Tom
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by Tom »

It seems reasonable in the sense of "what else can you do"?
I have not looked at this closely but from what I see here it seems as if structure was an after thought in this case.
(make sure you check out the new thread: Robie House Conservation Management Plan)

SDR
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Re: Wright Vision - Van Dusen residence 1939

Post by SDR »

I suppose that must be it. But a more efficient place for the long beam (flitched or WF) would be above the window wall---assuming there was vertical clearance for it ?

S

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