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FLW's Banff Pavilion to be rebuilt
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9002

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't get so defensive, Yew.

While we are at it, when did you attend Taliesin? Your name isn't on the list of attendees.

Romanza, I don't like to be threatened. I have lawyers of my own, so tread carefully.
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KayFrancis



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, this is getting crazy. When I posted above my reaction, I was starting to get concerned about what is going on with this project. It now seems that Roderick Grant's post was not true, so why would he do this? What's the motivation?
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 6034
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick does owe Yew-Thong Leong an apology, or at least an admission that he was mistaken, though from my ten year experience here at Wright Chat, I've yet to see that happen. Quickly Googling a name and then assuming it’s the same conman is shoddy research. And then, on top of that, instructing him, "Dont get so defensive" just doesn't cut it.

As an example, Wright Chat’s very own Roderick Grant (not!):
https://www2.ocadu.ca/bio/roderick-grant

This is how “fake news” of the Trump/Russia era is created and transmitted. A gentlemanly “oops” is in order, not blaming the victim who has already been maligned first by a false accusation and secondly rubbing salt into the wound by branding him “too defensive”.

Also-There must be something that I’m missing, because on the Ryerson website Mr. Leong only claims to be a “fan” of Wright, not a Taliesin apprentice. Where was it stated that he attended Taliesin?

At the same time, it would be helpful to see some design work that Mr. Leong has done in the past?
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DRN



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3697
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please correct me if I am mistaken, but I read Yew-Thong Leong’s comment to mean that Mr. Leong believes Roderick to be a former Taliesin Fellow and an architect.
It was my understanding that Roderick interviewed at Taliesin ca. 1961, but never joined the Fellowship. As to his profession, I don’t believe that has ever been established in this forum, but it is clear that his knowledge of architecture, architectural history, FLLW, and the American motion picture industry are extensive.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 6034
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify, R. Grant asked Yew-Thong Leong (first post, top of this page) when he attended Taliesin, as if he had somewhere made that claim. (Maybe he did, but I haven’t read that.)

“While we are at it, when did you attend Taliesin? Your name isn't on the list of attendees.”

There’s no disputing Mr. Grant’s knowledge or intelligence. Even the most knowledgeable might on occasion consider admitting to the remote possibility of being mistaken.

It’s also possible that the tiny fragments of information that Mr. Leong discovered about R. Grant through his internet search created an incorrect or incomplete picture of Mr. Grant’s architectural experience or career?
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9002

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mind chaos, but this is getting tiresome.

I misread Leong's comment to mean that "he" had attended Taliesin; I don't know where he got the idea that I had, or that I am an architect. I did not merely Google Yew. There was a connection between something posted and the site that made accusations. Nor did I see a photo of the Canadian Leong until he responded.

I propose we put an end to this long, contentious thread, and start over. The rebuilding of the Banff Pavilion is a worthy enterprise, if it can be pulled off adequately. If Ms Francis can accept this site on its own terms, without expecting unconditional praise for a questionable effort, we should be able to offer commentary and even insight without slipping off into apsidal subjects, leaving Peter to tend his garden.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 6034
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have proven my point. The contentiousness is always from everyone else, isn’t it? No responsibility, no apology for accusing a Canadian architecture professor of being a conman...
You can always refrain from posting on this thread, but I, for one, am still interested in seeing where the Banff project is headed. I vote to reject your proposal. Haven’t you shut down enough other threads already?
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9002

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That, if you read my post thoroughly, was my point, to start a new post on Banff without all the agitation. I have never shut down any thread. But you prove your own point about contentiousness, and where it comes from.
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KayFrancis



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, I don't think this should be dropped and started over at all. I still do not get any clear idea of at least 3 things. If you are not a Taliesin fellow, as Yew-Thong Leong mentions, who are you, and what do you do? You need to explain this, since it looks like you have posted untruths. I completely don't understand your "explanation" of how you came to post them, why you don't admit your mistake and at least apologize, and most importantly, what motive do you have to make these claims in the first place?
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flwromanza



Joined: 15 Nov 2011
Posts: 93

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick Grant, if you wish to handle this matter through your attorneys, would you please provide us with their contact information? If you don’t wish to do so publicly on this forum, you may send the information through Messenger on my Facebook page Frank Lloyd Wright Romanza.
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KayFrancis



Joined: 02 Sep 2016
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yesterday on Dezeen

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/01/31/michael-miner-frank-lloyd-wright-aaron-betsky-opinion-rebuttal/
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DRN



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3697
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the comments section, "Benny" earnestly raises valid new points, and some familiar ones, that must be considered by those involved for a successful outcome of this effort.

Thanks for sharing this Kay.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17208
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Any airing of the issues, discussions about the various forms in which architecture can be assessed and can be appreciated, is worth having, it seems to me. Like religion, like ownership of one's own body, one's own soul --
universal subjects about which there are multiple opinions and convictions -- all attempts to understand, to share, to strive for (re)conciliation, are to be encouraged -- and attended to.

If there is one part of the recreation-of-architecture discussion that virtually everyone in the field can agree upon, it is the faithful re-representation of the design and the object -- that is, accurate to the letter as well as the
spirit, of the specification and/or the recorded or remembered reality of the object to be replicated. If this is so, then there are members of the community have not been successful in re-creating a work of Frank Lloyd Wright.

There is no way for outsiders to a project to assure themselves and each other that "the good thing" will happen . . . is there ?

SDR
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DRN



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3697
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no objection to demolished buildings being recreated or unbuilts built if there is sound reason for the act and if the work can be done faithfully to the original intent.....for that matter a concept could be used as a point of departure for an inspired work that is altogether different.

Personally there are a couple of unbuilts residences in the Wright cannon that I would love to build if I had the means and opportunity. But a single family house privately built and maintained is a very different prospect than a building for public ownership and access. I would like nothing more than to experience in person all built and unbuilt ideas from the mind of FLLW. However the world of reality and economics comes into play..... buildings are expensive to build and expensive and time and resource intensive to maintain....buildings are commitments that last generations. If a private individual takes that on, so be it. But I would tread carefully and consider all possibilities and pitfalls, before I would even suggest to a public entity or a group of individuals such as a church congregation to undertake such an effort and commitment to be stewards in perpetuity.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 6034
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KayFrancis wrote:
Yesterday on Dezeen

https://www.dezeen.com/2019/01/31/michael-miner-frank-lloyd-wright-aaron-betsky-opinion-rebuttal/


Kay- I saw on Facebook that this link was shared by “Elaine Francis”. I assume that’s you?

I also noticed that all 27 of your posts on Wright Chat related to the Banff Pavilion. Is there other architecture which also interests you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Francis

https://www.rmoutlook.com/article/details-around-pavilion-needed-for-banffs-rec-grounds-plans-20190103
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