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FLW Foundation out of control
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9515

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turns out, Usonia is not to be found in "Erewhon."
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SpringGreen



Joined: 31 Mar 2006
Posts: 535

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:26 pm    Post subject: Usonian & Erehwon Reply with quote

I've often wondered if FLW wasn't undertaking a subtle & deft verbal machination when he said, essentially, that the word came from "nowhere".
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"The building as architecture is born out of the heart of man, permanent consort to the ground, comrade to the trees, true reflection of man in the realm of his own spirit." FLLW, "Two Lectures in Architecture: in the Realm of Ideas".
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Palli Davis Holubar



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1036
Location: Wakeman, Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some say Wright adopted the term Usonian John Dos Passos used (as a capitalized adjective) to describe Wright's vision for the American City in The Big Money (1936). But the word was used long before that in a more general descriptive sense for "American".
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Paul Ringstrom



Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 4210
Location: Mason City, IA

PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a followup story from the person who built the Second Life Fallingwater model.

He also includes some good personal advice.

http://camryndarkstone.wordpress.com/2010/12/11/so-long-frank-lloyd-wright/
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Mark Hertzberg



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 832

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My daily Google Frank Lloyd Wright search yielded a link to a post from Second Life, including a statement from the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation regarding the termination of the licensing agreement:

http://iggyo.blogspot.com/2010/12/reply-from-frank-lloyd-wright.html

It is a good exchange, and worth reading.

Mark Hertzberg
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Mark Hertzberg
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Deke



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 692
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Foundation is blowing a good deal of smoke here. They should know that building designs of this era are not protected by copyright and trademark is only applicable when designs distinguish a product in the marketplace (like McDonald's Golden Arches).

Deke
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DRN



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3821
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark for posting the link to the FLLWFDN response.

I see their point as not wanting to set a precedent of allowing ANYTHING to officially carry the name of FLLW unless it is the real thing, or an adaptation directly approved by their board. The virtual museum had limited controls for the quality or content of the submissions. Some may have been good quality, faithful representations, others may have been less so however well intentioned, or Wright inspired departures into new realms.

My take (and it is worth nothing) is that FLLWFDN is concerned that if they give the FLLW name as a blanket to representations that are not accurate or are new work based on Wrightian principles, they may "dilute their brand", or worse, cause confusion to the less scholarly as to what is and what is not an actual work of Frank Lloyd Wright.

To order a shut down of the site seems heavy handed and I question why they lent their name to this in the first place...why can't the virtual museum just have a disclaimer that these are representations, not the actual work, and encourage people to seek out the real thing if their interest is peaked?
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Mark Hertzberg



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 832

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Western Pennsylvania Conservancy is very protective of Fallingwater, as well. As for whether or not copyright applies here, Fallingwater is 1935, and the copyright law dates to protection from the mid-20s on, as I understand it.

Mark Hertzberg
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Mark Hertzberg
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hypnoraygun



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really wish some of these people being told to "take it down" had some money, and would say, "Really? Bring it on.."

Let the foundation put some money where their mouth is. If everyone said, "bring on the lawsuits" how much money would they waste going after these people?

I'm not saying that is a sound stance, but it would be interesting.

I feel most people are just afraid of legal action so they stop. In some strange way, (and yes, I know this doesn't really line up here) if Wright were put in a situation like this..?.. what do you think he would say?

I think he would ignore them (the foundation in this case) and continue doing what he was doing, and let the chips fall where they may.

People are ridiculous. They are ready to sue at the drop of a hat. It only makes them looks bad, and potentially contributes to loss of donations and support. Very short sighted, in my opinion.
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Mark Hertzberg



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 832

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am working on a book about the criminal justice system. I have a good quote from a defense attorney about how people disparage attorneys and the legal system, until they feel aggrieved and want to hire a lawyer. Then, the legal system cannot do enough for them. We have a lot of comments from the sidelines in this forum. I liked the tone in the link I gave earlier today.
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Mark Hertzberg
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hypnoraygun



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Missouri

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Hertzberg wrote:
We have a lot of comments from the sidelines in this forum.


And we just heard another one.
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9515

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lawyers are experts at justifying their profession and heading off any attempt to rein them in. Norway has a system that requires civil cases to be argued by plaintiff and defense, without benefit of legal counsel, before a civilian board on which lawyers are not allowed to serve. The board, having heard both sides of the dispute, renders a verdict. Only if one or both sides contest the verdict do lawyers and courts become involved. If both sides agree to the settlement, that's the end of it and it cannot be taken any further. Over 80% of all disputes are resolved without lawyers or courts. In this country, the fix is in; lawyers light the fire they put out. Here one has no choice if confronted with a legal situation, since only lawyers can navigate the legal system with any hope of success. To suggest the status quo is inevitable, like something cosmic, handed down from above, defies logic.
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Paul Ringstrom



Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 4210
Location: Mason City, IA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want to reform our "justice" system you would institute "loser pays."

That was an underfunded defendant who has the law on his side can afford to go up against the well-funded bullies. Also frivolous suits would be discouraged.
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Deke



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 692
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark Hertzberg wrote:
The Western Pennsylvania Conservancy is very protective of Fallingwater, as well. As for whether or not copyright applies here, Fallingwater is 1935, and the copyright law dates to protection from the mid-20s on, as I understand it.

Mark Hertzberg


The date of Falllingwater is irrelevant, Mark. The key here is that it's an architectural design, and not protected as are writings and drawings. The thinking was that if someone designed a Tudor style house they shouldn't be able to prevent anyone else form designing a Tudor style house.

Deke
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Mark Hertzberg



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 832

PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe there is arguably quite a difference between THE Fallingwater and A Tudor-style house.

Mark Hertzberg
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