Evolution of the Maginel Wright Barney Cottage

[Roderick Grant]

One of Henry J. Neils' businesses was marble headstones. He wanted to use marble scraps for his house to save money. The story told is that, when completed, FLW thought the stone too relentlessly gray, so he had come stones painted to contrast. This is not true! Do not repeat!

[SDR]

Ha. People will repeat any interesting news, real or not -- as we see all around us today. I will let that one die.

Tom, the steel in the window wall at Fallingwater needs only to operate in tension or compression -- can anyone say which ? Here, we're talking about bending moment at one end of the steel, attached to another element at an angle: not much help when the metal and the intersection are both so skimpy.

A way to make that roof hold its internal angle would be with scissor trusses for the rafters. No law says that the upper and lower surfaces of a roof plane need to be parallel -- unless that would have offended Wright the purist in some way ? It doesn't appear to have been done that way, at any rate.

I'll post the two plans when I have a moment. The pier in the first version is very evident in plan . . .

S

[HOJO]

There is a top "chord" to the steel in the window wall.
It may be that the connections of the verticals to that "chord"
are rigid - welded.

A top "chord" would be pulled down under the gable rooftop to a straigh line from posttop to posttop.
I'd love to see a structural plan for that roof, more than for any other roof.

[Tom]

Wjsaia has a large scale section on Photobucket through Walker showing the steel structure. Wish we could link to it here but I could not figure that out.

Kentucky Knobs' livingroom ceiling is "false" to allow for collar ties between rafters at the ridge.

[Roderick Grant]

Two things must be kept in mind: William Wesley Peters was a great engineer and undoubtedly worked on that roof, and there it is, after 67 years holding steady. Can't argue with success.

I agree that the roof planes inside and out are probably not parallel, and that scissor trusses were possibly used.

[SDR]

I didn't suggest that the Neils roof had scissor trusses, only that that might have been a workable strategy. Unless the ceiling planes at Neils are twisted -- see Unitarian Meeting House -- there are likely no such trusses; the roof planes that extends beyond the glass are clearly visible in the photo above, and they do not appear to be tapered.

Brandoch Peters says, in a video once linked on this site, that his father was not always able to explain how he arrived at certain calculations, by his own admission. Nevertheless, we don't see structures he designed or structured failing. The proof, as they say, is in the . . .

It's Kentuck Knob -- for whatever reason -- not Kentucky. Can you send me a link to that Photobucket account, Tom -- I can copy one of Bill's images, with appropriate crediting . . .

SDR

[dancedark]

Thanks everyone for the discussion on the roof engineering. Seems like a very robust connection at the ridge may be the best explanation for lack of splaying, but, the mystery lives on. Tom, would also love to see the link you mentioned. Can you give more direction to it?

[Tom]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/545568942339802791

If this does not work I'll spell it out.

[Tom]

Okay - looks like the link above works.
The section I'm talking about is top left.
It is collected from the Photobucket library of one William Schwarz
aka wjsaia.
He used to post here.

For the life of me I could not figure out the Photobucket website.

[Tom]

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/545568942339802793

Full Section

[SDR]

The Old Man sure knew how to get the most out of a few sticks of material . . .

That section confirms for me the angle of the glazing steps. I would have thought the horizontals would be . . . horizontal. But it looks great in photos, so who am I to complain. You can also see the kind of steel C Besinger was talking about. And, we see a hanging fire-basket, comparable to the one designed for Lamberson.

We also see the angle and location of the oh-so-slender supporting posts. Wow -- wonder who the building-department guy in Carmel was, then; no problem, apparently.

SDR

[Tom]

SDR, were you able to zoom in on this section?
I could not.

[SDR]

I'll find or create a Walker thread, to display the section drawing from Mono 7.

SDR

[Tom]

You da man.

[Daniel Dominique Watts]

Sorry this is coming literally years later. I agree that the slanted fascia boards on interior light trays are atypical of Wright's work, however you can also see it on works by Lloyd Wright for his father's projects. Anything after 1908 is "subject" the date to look for according to my reply from Eric Lloyd Wright when asking what dates his father started doing designs/drawings for Frank.

So Lloyd "heavily" drew the Huntington Hartford project. He even continued for years to draw the entire site drawings including art building, large museum type building, and several "built" buildings including several "artisan" cottages, and a cottage for Huntington in wood and stone which also had a swimming pool. I have a few black & white images taken (I assume by Lloyd) of the interior and exterior. The interior photos show "his" unique take for designing the canted fascia boards of the light trays with to memory, cubes cut into the bottom edges which was done typically on external fascias. I'm using my cellphone to write this note & don't have access to my photos from my research data. Sorry. I will try to post also one later.

I do know Errol Flynn had a home modified there with pool & tennis court. It was destroyed after he no longer lived there if I remember. I can't recall if it was on the original site of Huntington's house by Lloyd or not. The tennis court survives I have seen in more recent colored photos & there were efforts to save it.