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Olgivanna Lazovich Lloyd Wright: Opinions & Perspective
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Eric Saed



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Minne-sO-tah Norwegian living in exile in Lubbock, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:34 pm    Post subject: Olgivanna Lazovich Lloyd Wright: Opinions & Perspective Reply with quote

Granted, there are probably at maximum two dozen people alive on this Earth who care, but, I thought there needed to be somewhere that people could vent about their issues with Olga and her impact on FLLW.

Last edited by Eric Saed on Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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LikaComet



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Lowlands of Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After just finishing the novel by Nancy Horan I realize that Frank sold himself short by hooking up with Olga-skank. I mean did she really move Frank's remains away from where he wanted to be buried. Jeez.

I realize that Olga buttressed him when he needed someone most but it is tragic that he couldn't be with Mamah throughout his life. I hope Olga is not listening. A tree might fall on me.
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Eric Saed



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Minne-sO-tah Norwegian living in exile in Lubbock, Texas

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Granted, there may never have been a Taliesin Fellowship without her, but, I truly believe that her influence after Mr. Wright's death prevented Mr. Wright's vision of organic architecture to thrive.

Last edited by Eric Saed on Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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FTA



Joined: 24 Mar 2005
Posts: 150

PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't feel the nature of this thread is positive or productive and have recommended to the moderators that it be removed.
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LikaComet



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Lowlands of Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I apologize for offending any sensibility. The derogatory name calling was disrepectful but I was participating in the conversation while introducing levety. However; I agree and seriously regret that I relaxed my approach to the subject not realizing that someone here may have been directly related to the Wright family.

Within this thread some positive aspects of Mrs. Wright have been observed but everything is not roses within any garden.

I do wonder about what influences Mrs. Wright had on the fellowship. Positive and Negative. I hope the exploration of all aspects of Mr. Wright's life will be open to consideration.

I would like to think that all contributors to this site are motivated by the deepest respect and even love for Frank LLoyd Wright. I know that This one is. . .

Once again, I apologize for any offense. But disallowing honest analysis is not in the interest of full understanding.



douglas (contrite and bowed w/ tail between legs)
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5626
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could the solution here be to simply change the title of the thread to something like:

Olgivanna Lazovich Lloyd Wright: Influence on Frank Lloyd Wright's Architecture

or

Olgivanna Lazovich Lloyd Wright: the Good, Bad and the Ugly
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LikaComet



Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 57
Location: Lowlands of Maryland

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's one possible solution but I am more conserned with the my offending FTA.
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Eric Saed



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Minne-sO-tah Norwegian living in exile in Lubbock, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FTA- you were right to call us out on the childish name-calling and I apologize for bringing a topic down to gutter-level so quickly. I have edited my posts.

Peter- at your suggestion, I have changed the title of this thread to be more inclusive of all opinions.

My motivation for posting this thread is out of my psychological and sociological curiosity: My opinion is that Olga was a cult leader, all of the classic traits were there: out-of-control narcissism, isolation tactics, brainwashing, rituals, ostracism of those who did not adhere...pretty much the same m.o. as Jim Jones, David Koresh, Heaven's Gate...if it weren't for the profit motive and thusly reliance on obtaining commissions, I wonder what could have happened. But, for the lack of catastrophic tragedy, this cult leader was never examined or analyzed to the degree of the aforementioned.
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7616

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no way to analyze FLW post-Miriam without taking Olga into account. That some, if not most, find her involvement with Wright a negative, and others may find this offensive, is no reason to try to censor discussion. LikaComet, you have no reason to apologize for using hyperbole and levity in your comments; FTA, if you want to defend the reputation of Olga, go ahead, but don't even suggest that this topic should not be broached because it offends your personal sensibilities. In a conversation I had long ago with Anne Baxter, I asked her about FLW's seeming lack of friends as a child, as well as the effects of his impoverished origins. She immediately became defensive, and said his childhood experiences had nothing to do with evolution as an architect, which is all we should be concerned about. To which I pointed out (hyperbolically and with levity) that if he had been born Frank Lloyd Vanderbilt, the history of architecture would have been completely different. Every aspect of one's history, every significant relationship, bears on the end result. With the topic at hand, that pertains especially in the post-WWII years, and with the post-Wright legacy as filtered through the 26 years Olga ruled Taliesin after Wright's death.
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Wrightgeek



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Westerville, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I don't disagree with many of the less than complimentary opinions expressed about Olgivanna on this thread, I do think that it is excessively harsh to compare her and her actions with the likes of Jones, Karesh and the Heavens Gate leader (as I recall his name was Marshall something-or other).
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m.perrino



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 277

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Watch out ! Here is a thread that could easily go to 30+ pages !

Olgivanna. No one is ever non-committal. It is either strongly PRO or without hesitation, CON. I never met her so my impressions are only from speaking to both camps and also from what I have read. My random thoughts and my personal opinions :

1. I firmly beleive that the meeting of Olgivanna and FLW was no accident, as it has been so often reported.
2. Consider this, two attractive people meet each other. What might happen ? Certainly when the female is most JUNIOR to the male. To me, Olgivanna was a very attractive woman. How could FLW resist ?
3. She devoted herself to him and the development of the Fellowship
4. There was always tension. Architecture v. Gurdjieffian philosopy.
5. She was instrumental in keeping the FLW name, brand, persona, story, etc alive - as evident herein.
6. I do not condone or support the methods she employed in doing so
7. The book on Olgivanna - an objective accounting - has also yet to be written

Michael
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5626
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would also be very interested in hearing anecdotes and impressions of the woman from the few who actually knew her.
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Deke



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 692
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first became infatuated with Wright's work, his personal life was not part of the picture, and only after reading various books did I learn about his hectic personal life. There is something fascinating about the psychological make-up of the man that I don't think has been addressed sufficiently, that is what must have been a feeling of inadequacy. Hard to imagine, give his ego, but I think the ego can be a coping mechanism for fear of being discovered as a farm-boy from the middle of nowhere. Wright didn't have a college education and was perhaps intimidated by the eastern establishment and one way of dealing with this is to reject the entire notion of the city. I can imagine Olga's European and quasi-aristocratic background were an attraction to Wright. Like a lot of geniuses (see Michael Jackson), Wright attracted and tolerated more than a few sycophants.

Deke
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Eric Saed



Joined: 15 Jun 2006
Posts: 103
Location: Minne-sO-tah Norwegian living in exile in Lubbock, Texas

PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Perrino, Peter & Deke...exactly the things I wanted to bring to light. Well stated, all.
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Palli Davis Holubar



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1036
Location: Wakeman, Ohio

PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have opinion and have inherited opinion about Olgivanna and her relationships. Although coming to this late, after discussion and apology, I still need to make introductory comment before the healthy dialogue continues.
I suspect most of us are men; few of us are first generation immigrants to America; few of us have had to survive the devastation of our everyday (class and gender) lifestyle.

I have to remind myself of the last two often when lamenting Wright's final partnership.
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