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Tracing the designs of 4 basic chairs
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[ahem] Sondern chairs without perfs shown immediately above. . .
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Palli Davis Holubar



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1036
Location: Wakeman, Ohio

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See I told you I saw them....a mille second earlier...short term memory again
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too -- believe me !

Palli sends this:




The Origami shown here seems to match one shown in "The Natural House" but with different fabric:

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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last two photos on this page of the Origami thread

http://savewright.org/wright_chat/viewtopic.php?t=2284&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=origami&start=15

(contributed by TnGuy from a T A Heinz book I haven't seen) show a) a unique view of the ultra-simple Sturges Origami (owed I guess to John
Lautner, if they are original to the house) and b) the only thin-skin Origami I can recall: the one above, taken obviously at TalWest, again -- with still
another fabric ? Is that T for Taliesin ?

Thomas Heintz seem to get there before everybody, or (more often, perhaps) after everybody else has been and gone. Unique views, again
and again.

SDR
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wjsaia



Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="SDR"]Me too -- believe me !

Palli sends this:



I suggest a correction be made in the above caption: the 1948 chair shown above is not in the Walker House; rather, it's in the Neils House.

Referring to Ross's drawings, there were 4 stacked parallelograms in the Hanna chair and 3 in the Neils version. There are some little extra notches in corners of those stacked openings that lend a degree of complexity to disassociate them from recognition as "just plain parallelograms", too. You might want to show more wood remaining outbound from the stacks of parallelograms–these drawings make the supports look overly fragile in that respect. There is a picture of a Hanna chair about 3/4 the way down on Page 10 of this thread.

WJS
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Palli Davis Holubar



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1036
Location: Wakeman, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did I miss notate that chair? Yes I did! And SDR has already placed the Neils chair in the arrangement. The carpet alone should have stopped me in my tracks Yesterday was not a visual day for me!
Ross's second perf is Neils. Thanks! Bill
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll do the editing shortly. I don't have Palli's facility with the typography, but I'll see what I can arrange.
Someone else will have to improve the drawings, per Bill's suggestions. I can re-post any of this, at will. . .


SDR
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Palli Davis Holubar



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1036
Location: Wakeman, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ross's drawings are OK: the one on the left is Hanna & the right one is Neils
Thanks
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll let Palli send me corrected copy, and I will post it.

The comment about the drawings had to do with details of the images, not labeling, I believe.



SDR
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palli forwards this improved panel:

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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, perforations like these can sometimes provide useful aid in placing clamps. Otherwise I can think of no way in which they might
improved the Hanna or Neils chairs from a technical point of view. They certainly reduce both the weight and the strength (resistance to splitting if
abused, for instance) of the leg panels.

One can see three differences between the two versions of this design, aside from the subtle changes in the perfs:

Neils has an upholstered back; its little triangular crest flap is tipped down a bit; and the bottom of the perforated leg panels has been relieved slightly,
which would improve stability on a soft or irregular floor surface by allowing the sitter's weight to transfer to the floor at the very front of the leg.

Bill is correct in noting that the proportions of the leg have not been drawn quite correctly: more solid material needs to be shown between the
perforation(s) and the canted vertical edge(s) of the panel. But it surely is nice to see the perf designs so clearly depicted.


SDR
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple more hassocks -- the inverted pyramid, with base additions.

Walter (Cedar Rock)




Taliesin West, the Cabaret Theater. Note place settings. . .


SDR
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dtc



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like a tight squeeze, where does one put his/her knees and legs at those place settings? I would have trouble.
dtc
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17585
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. Semi-comfortable group dining accommodation abounds at T West, apparently. Here is the full photo of the Cabaret, and one of the
Garden Room (should these be capitalized ?), both appearing on the same page of "FLLW's House Beautiful" (Diane Maddex; Hearst Books ©2000).
No dates are given for photos in this book, whose contents are apparently drawn from the pages of the magazine. There is a thirty-year gap in
coverage of Wright at the magazine (at least as far as special Wright issues is concerned), so these photos probably date either from 1963 or
earlier, or from special issues of 1992 or 1996 -- as near as I can tell. I suspect the latter dates apply.






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wjsaia



Joined: 26 Aug 2006
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR wrote:
Palli forwards this improved panel:



Here is an apparent intermediate variant of the Hanna dining chair, evidently tried out experimentally at Taliesin West sometime prior to when a subsequent version would be put forward for the Neils dining chairs. This photograph, taken by Julius Schulman in 1950, shows the Suntrap after it had been remodeled by FLlW in 1948-49 for daughter Iovanna to live in. Curtis Besinger reports in Working with Mr. Wright – What It Was Like that the Suntrap came to be referred to at this time by those constructing the conversion as the “Son-In-Law Trap.” Later on, it took on the more staid appellation, “Sun Cottage.”


Iovanna's Cottage, 1950


Detail of Chairs and Tables

The chair design now included a dorsal stabilizer having contact with the floor so as to contribute a degree of assurance against tipping over backwards as had been problematic with the Hanna chair. However, the side wings are still clipped back inwardly, so no added lateral stability would be provided by this design. Based on the retention of this design feature, one might surmise that, whereas the primary drawback of the Hanna chair was its tendency to tip over backwards, tipping sideways may have been viewed as a secondary concern.

For the Neils house chair, however, FLlW included the dorsal stabilizer (as a narrow fin instead of the apparent triangular configuration it took on these Taliesin West chairs), and he also conservatively elected to provide additional sideways stability by having the side wings extend full width down to the floor.

This example indicates that FLlW held a continuing interest in and, presumably, a fondness for the Hanna chair design. Clearly, he held an intention to perpetuate its application. David Hanks relates in his book that Paul Hanna reported to him that FLlW had “vociferously” condemned the Hanna chairs and urged Paul to “destroy them all.” I am inclined to think that was feigned, nonchalant bravado on FLlW’s part as public posturing in the face of demonstrated shortcomings inherent in a design that he actually liked more than he would reveal at the time, attempting instead to trivialize the chairs to Paul Hanna as being mere trash. Here we see that he sought to perfect the chair's design by way of personal, private experimentation in his own family’s quarters, with an eye towards possibly reintroducing it later to new clients.

The two hexagonal tables appear to have been built to go along with the chairs, sharing as they do the stacked parallelogram perforations as decorative motifs.


Sun Cottage

Bill Schwarz


Last edited by wjsaia on Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:35 pm; edited 2 times in total
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