FLW Red Signature Tile

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Wrightgeek
Posts: 1548
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio

Post by Wrightgeek »

As I like to say, ask and you shall receive. My pleasure, SDR.

But before you go too far with your theory about chronology, keep in mind that the dates supplied by Mr. Storrer are tied only to when the plans were drawn, not to when construction was either started or completed.

I'm not sure how to access a listing of the starts of construction or the completion dates for each built project. I would not be surprised to learn that such information is available somewhere, but I do not know where to look for it, so the Storrer dates will have to suffice for now.

SDR
Posts: 18675
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

I'll have to check and see what the Monographs give as the dating parameter. . .

Well, the two copies I have say nothing about how the dates were determined. Perhaps the initial volume covers that.
In any event, I don't have number 7, which would cover the bulk of the "tiled" designs.

Hmm. . . Anybody ?


SDR

KevinW
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:41 pm

How Cool Is This

Post by KevinW »

If I might take a moment to be the sentimental fool that I am.....
Firstly, thanks to all that have send such nice wishes and messeges to me on my new job. It really means a great deal to me. The job is going great, I think this place has the possibility of putting out some nice work.
Next, I am so impressed with all who post here and share that passion of great Architecture and all things Wright. It is a special bond that I doubt exists in many places.
Thank you all so much for tolerating my "late nite obsessive, should not have opened that bottle of Pinot Noir, gotta find that box I know I put stuff in" rambles.
This is such a cool hang!
KevinW

SDR
Posts: 18675
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

We're lucky, and pleased, to have you among us, sir. I'm sure I speak for many. . .

It's a great feeling, isn't it, to share something we obviously all cherish, each in his or her own way ?


SDR

Olgivanna
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:41 am
Location: Taliesin, Spring Green, WI & Taliesin West, Scottsdale, AZ
Contact:

Post by Olgivanna »

If I might take a moment to be the sentimental fool that I am.....
Firstly, thanks to all that have send such nice wishes and messeges to me on my new job. It really means a great deal to me. The job is going great, I think this place has the possibility of putting out some nice work.
Next, I am so impressed with all who post here and share that passion of great Architecture and all things Wright. It is a special bond that I doubt exists in many places.
Thank you all so much for tolerating my "late nite obsessive, should not have opened that bottle of Pinot Noir, gotta find that box I know I put stuff in" rambles.
This is such a cool hang
!

MyLieb,

No offense. But, don’t celebrate the new job just yet. Let’s chat 6 to 9 months from now and let’s see how it’s going. Early in my career, I was the loyal and faithful IBM lifetime type of employee. Sort of like joining Aaron Green Assoc.. Not anymore. It is unfortunately a very different “short term� “do what is only best for you� type of world these days. I hope at your age, you have amassed a nice nest egg. This economy is screwed for the next several years..

I feel sorry for the current generation.

Best of luck.

Wrightgeek
Posts: 1548
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio

Post by Wrightgeek »

myLAGG-

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that if you look hard enough at the previous post, you might just be able to find a congrats and best wishes buried in there somewhere. But anyway...

Speaking for the rest of us, it was nice of you to express your thoughts about the best wishes sent your way, and I know that we all enjoy your contributions to this forum. Your life experienes and your association with Aaron Green give you a unique perspective on many of the topics that are discussed here, and we all appreciate your willingness to share your insights and stories with the rest of us. In other words, its cool hanging with you too.

But you should probably put away those boxes, turn off the computer and head for bed so you can get to that new job on time in the morning, right? Good night from the heartland.

Olgivanna
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 1:41 am
Location: Taliesin, Spring Green, WI & Taliesin West, Scottsdale, AZ
Contact:

Post by Olgivanna »

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that if you look hard enough at the previous post, you might just be able to find a congrats and best wishes buried in there somewhere. But anyway...

Speaking for the rest of us, it was nice of you to express your thoughts about the best wishes sent your way, and I know that we all enjoy your contributions to this forum. Your life experienes and your association with Aaron Green give you a unique perspective on many of the topics that are discussed here, and we all appreciate your willingness to share your insights and stories with the rest of us. In other words, its cool hanging with you too.

But you should probably put away those boxes, turn off the computer and head for bed so you can get to that new job on time in the morning, right? Good night from the heartland.
One more thing. Once you start work, you should immedately be looking for another job. A. B. L.

A - Always

B - Be

L - Looking

SDR
Posts: 18675
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Let's try again tomorrow. . .



SDR

KevinW
Posts: 1280
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:41 pm

Eh

Post by KevinW »

The firm I chose, has been around for nearly 60 years, they dont rely on developers, since school and civic work is prilmarliy funded through bonds. The firms projects are from 90% repeat clients. So I feel good that I will be emplyed at least another 12 years or until I begin my own firm so .... And Olgivanna, what the hell...."at my age"????????????? LOL
Its all good Olga!
KevinW

JimM
Posts: 1499
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:44 pm

Post by JimM »

SDR wrote:I'll have to check and see what the Monographs give as the dating parameter. . .

Well, the two copies I have say nothing about how the dates were determined. Perhaps the initial volume covers that.
In any event, I don't have number 7, which would cover the bulk of the "tiled" designs.

Hmm. . . Anybody ?


SDR
As far as I can tell, none of the volumes appear to establish a dating protocol. In the Preface to "Frank Lloyd Wright-Drawings", BBP notes...."Dates assigned correspond to the conception of the work, when it was first put down on paper..... The Guggenheim Museum, for example, was a design idea conceived in 1943.....construction began in 1956. But the salient fact remains that the concept of the work dates to 1943 in the oeuvre of Wright".

May not help with the tiles, but interesting nonetheless!

DRN
Posts: 3887
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:02 am
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Post by DRN »

Of the "tiled" buildings listed, a number were completed following FLLW's death, and some I believe were not yet under construction as of late April 1959.

Guggenheim was dedicated and opened its doors in Fall 1959.

Arizona Highways noted Marin County Civic Center as "in construction" in April 1962 showing a shell with just roof framing. The Justice wing followed in the late '60's-early '70's. I wonder if MCCC's tile went through Taliesin. Given Green's involvement with the building, his ties to Mrs. Haber who lived until 1968, could a tile have been made for the building?....just a wild speculation on my part.

The Greek Orthodox Church was completed after FLLW's death...it was completed as of the printing of the April '62 AZ Highways mag though.

Per an article on the Gordon house in Quarterly, construction was after 1959. Taliesin learned of the house's construction in the early 1960's and billed the final amount of FLLW's fee.

As for Cass, it should probably be assumed a commission with a design date of 1959 was probably not completed at the end of April 1959...I question if construction documents would have been completed by that time.

First Christian was built in the early '70's with its bell tower following in the mid '70's as noted in their brochure.

Riverview Terrace was not completed until the late '60's per Robert Twombly's 1978-9 book.

I suspect the tiles were given for various reasons...if asked by the client, if liked by Wright, if being completed when the tiles were still lying around, if a large public building, if paid in full, and post-1959: if sufficiently reverent to Olgivanna (Wright's wife, not the poster), or generou$ to the Foundation (aka sufficiently reverent to Olgivanna).

Wrightgeek
Posts: 1548
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 5:21 pm
Location: Westerville, Ohio

Post by Wrightgeek »

I sent an email to Fallingwater yesterday afternoon inquiring about the existence of a red tile anywhere on the building there, and here is the response I received today from Kay Hauger, in Visitor Services:



Mr. Byrd,

Thank you for your interest in Fallingwater.

Unfortunately, Fallingwater does not have the signature tile affixed to our building. Kentuck Knob does have one at the entrance.

Sincerely,

Kay

Kay Hauger
Visitor Services
Fallingwater
P O Box R
Mill Run PA 15464
724-329-8501
www.fallingwater.org
WPC@paconserve.org


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kevin Byrd [mailto:racegeek@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tue 1/13/2009 4:37 PM
To: WPC Fallingwater
Subject: Frank Lloyd Wright Red Clay Signature Tile


Can you please answer a simple question for me?

Is one of the celebrated "FLLW" cherokee red clay signature tiles affixed to this building?

And if so, can you please give me a general idea of where it might be located?

Thank you very much for assistance you can provide.

K. Byrd
Westerville, OH




That should clear up any remaining confusion about whether Fallingwater does or does not have a red tile.

hypnoraygun
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Missouri

Post by hypnoraygun »

Unfortunately, Fallingwater does not have the signature tile
Ahhh haa!!

I would like to say I knew it!, But I didn't.. I had a feeling something was strange that we couldn't come up with a photo of it.

I think we should make sure (If we haven't already) that the homes listed with the tiles have been verified by us in some way. A photo, actual sighting, documentation, or a very reliable source.

I personally don't doubt any of these, I have no idea if I haven't been there. But I did attend service at the First Christian Church in Phoenix, AZ and I can not remember seeing the tile. IF I did see it, it was inside, not outside. Can anyone confirm location of the tile?

Great job to all!! This is fun.

hypnoraygun
Posts: 561
Joined: Wed Mar 22, 2006 1:28 pm
Location: Missouri

Post by hypnoraygun »

Have we given up on this?

SDR
Posts: 18675
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

No -- and thanks for your helpful photos; they are the only collection of signature tile recordings we have, so far. But I think it's time to stop
speculating, and start collecting data. When a complete photo record of all in situ tiles has been gathered, and any relevant information about
each installation has been assembled, then a presentation can be made that will close the book on the subject.

Let it go on every visitor's list, when touring the Wright catalog, to look for and shoot the red tile. Duplications are no problem; it's just the missing
ones that will hold up the parade. Needless to say, record photos should be "full-frontal" shots. . .

We are perhaps now in the last decade of the period when original owners of Wright properties can be interviewed. . .


SDR

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