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FLW Red Signature Tile
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Wrightgeek



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Westerville, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I like to say, ask and you shall receive. My pleasure, SDR.

But before you go too far with your theory about chronology, keep in mind that the dates supplied by Mr. Storrer are tied only to when the plans were drawn, not to when construction was either started or completed.

I'm not sure how to access a listing of the starts of construction or the completion dates for each built project. I would not be surprised to learn that such information is available somewhere, but I do not know where to look for it, so the Storrer dates will have to suffice for now.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17470
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll have to check and see what the Monographs give as the dating parameter. . .

Well, the two copies I have say nothing about how the dates were determined. Perhaps the initial volume covers that.
In any event, I don't have number 7, which would cover the bulk of the "tiled" designs.

Hmm. . . Anybody ?


SDR
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KevinW



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:35 pm    Post subject: How Cool Is This Reply with quote

If I might take a moment to be the sentimental fool that I am.....
Firstly, thanks to all that have send such nice wishes and messeges to me on my new job. It really means a great deal to me. The job is going great, I think this place has the possibility of putting out some nice work.
Next, I am so impressed with all who post here and share that passion of great Architecture and all things Wright. It is a special bond that I doubt exists in many places.
Thank you all so much for tolerating my "late nite obsessive, should not have opened that bottle of Pinot Noir, gotta find that box I know I put stuff in" rambles.
This is such a cool hang!
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KevinW
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17470
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We're lucky, and pleased, to have you among us, sir. I'm sure I speak for many. . .

It's a great feeling, isn't it, to share something we obviously all cherish, each in his or her own way ?


SDR
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Olgivanna



Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Taliesin, Spring Green, WI & Taliesin West, Scottsdale, AZ

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I might take a moment to be the sentimental fool that I am.....
Firstly, thanks to all that have send such nice wishes and messeges to me on my new job. It really means a great deal to me. The job is going great, I think this place has the possibility of putting out some nice work.
Next, I am so impressed with all who post here and share that passion of great Architecture and all things Wright. It is a special bond that I doubt exists in many places.
Thank you all so much for tolerating my "late nite obsessive, should not have opened that bottle of Pinot Noir, gotta find that box I know I put stuff in" rambles.
This is such a cool hang
!

MyLieb,

No offense. But, don’t celebrate the new job just yet. Let’s chat 6 to 9 months from now and let’s see how it’s going. Early in my career, I was the loyal and faithful IBM lifetime type of employee. Sort of like joining Aaron Green Assoc.. Not anymore. It is unfortunately a very different “short term” “do what is only best for you” type of world these days. I hope at your age, you have amassed a nice nest egg. This economy is screwed for the next several years..

I feel sorry for the current generation.

Best of luck.
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Wrightgeek



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Westerville, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

myLAGG-

I'm not entirely sure, but I think that if you look hard enough at the previous post, you might just be able to find a congrats and best wishes buried in there somewhere. But anyway...

Speaking for the rest of us, it was nice of you to express your thoughts about the best wishes sent your way, and I know that we all enjoy your contributions to this forum. Your life experienes and your association with Aaron Green give you a unique perspective on many of the topics that are discussed here, and we all appreciate your willingness to share your insights and stories with the rest of us. In other words, its cool hanging with you too.

But you should probably put away those boxes, turn off the computer and head for bed so you can get to that new job on time in the morning, right? Good night from the heartland.
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Olgivanna



Joined: 09 Jan 2009
Posts: 65
Location: Taliesin, Spring Green, WI & Taliesin West, Scottsdale, AZ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm not entirely sure, but I think that if you look hard enough at the previous post, you might just be able to find a congrats and best wishes buried in there somewhere. But anyway...

Speaking for the rest of us, it was nice of you to express your thoughts about the best wishes sent your way, and I know that we all enjoy your contributions to this forum. Your life experienes and your association with Aaron Green give you a unique perspective on many of the topics that are discussed here, and we all appreciate your willingness to share your insights and stories with the rest of us. In other words, its cool hanging with you too.

But you should probably put away those boxes, turn off the computer and head for bed so you can get to that new job on time in the morning, right? Good night from the heartland.


One more thing. Once you start work, you should immedately be looking for another job. A. B. L.

A - Always

B - Be

L - Looking
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17470
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's try again tomorrow. . .



SDR
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KevinW



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Posts: 1270

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:41 am    Post subject: Eh Reply with quote

The firm I chose, has been around for nearly 60 years, they dont rely on developers, since school and civic work is prilmarliy funded through bonds. The firms projects are from 90% repeat clients. So I feel good that I will be emplyed at least another 12 years or until I begin my own firm so .... And Olgivanna, what the hell...."at my age"????????????? LOL
Its all good Olga!
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KevinW
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JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1440

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR wrote:
I'll have to check and see what the Monographs give as the dating parameter. . .

Well, the two copies I have say nothing about how the dates were determined. Perhaps the initial volume covers that.
In any event, I don't have number 7, which would cover the bulk of the "tiled" designs.

Hmm. . . Anybody ?


SDR


As far as I can tell, none of the volumes appear to establish a dating protocol. In the Preface to "Frank Lloyd Wright-Drawings", BBP notes...."Dates assigned correspond to the conception of the work, when it was first put down on paper..... The Guggenheim Museum, for example, was a design idea conceived in 1943.....construction began in 1956. But the salient fact remains that the concept of the work dates to 1943 in the oeuvre of Wright".

May not help with the tiles, but interesting nonetheless!
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DRN



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3721
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of the "tiled" buildings listed, a number were completed following FLLW's death, and some I believe were not yet under construction as of late April 1959.

Guggenheim was dedicated and opened its doors in Fall 1959.

Arizona Highways noted Marin County Civic Center as "in construction" in April 1962 showing a shell with just roof framing. The Justice wing followed in the late '60's-early '70's. I wonder if MCCC's tile went through Taliesin. Given Green's involvement with the building, his ties to Mrs. Haber who lived until 1968, could a tile have been made for the building?....just a wild speculation on my part.

The Greek Orthodox Church was completed after FLLW's death...it was completed as of the printing of the April '62 AZ Highways mag though.

Per an article on the Gordon house in Quarterly, construction was after 1959. Taliesin learned of the house's construction in the early 1960's and billed the final amount of FLLW's fee.

As for Cass, it should probably be assumed a commission with a design date of 1959 was probably not completed at the end of April 1959...I question if construction documents would have been completed by that time.

First Christian was built in the early '70's with its bell tower following in the mid '70's as noted in their brochure.

Riverview Terrace was not completed until the late '60's per Robert Twombly's 1978-9 book.

I suspect the tiles were given for various reasons...if asked by the client, if liked by Wright, if being completed when the tiles were still lying around, if a large public building, if paid in full, and post-1959: if sufficiently reverent to Olgivanna (Wright's wife, not the poster), or generou$ to the Foundation (aka sufficiently reverent to Olgivanna).
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Wrightgeek



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Westerville, Ohio

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sent an email to Fallingwater yesterday afternoon inquiring about the existence of a red tile anywhere on the building there, and here is the response I received today from Kay Hauger, in Visitor Services:



Mr. Byrd,

Thank you for your interest in Fallingwater.

Unfortunately, Fallingwater does not have the signature tile affixed to our building. Kentuck Knob does have one at the entrance.

Sincerely,

Kay

Kay Hauger
Visitor Services
Fallingwater
P O Box R
Mill Run PA 15464
724-329-8501
www.fallingwater.org
WPC@paconserve.org


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Kevin Byrd [mailto:racegeek@earthlink.net]
Sent: Tue 1/13/2009 4:37 PM
To: WPC Fallingwater
Subject: Frank Lloyd Wright Red Clay Signature Tile


Can you please answer a simple question for me?

Is one of the celebrated "FLLW" cherokee red clay signature tiles affixed to this building?

And if so, can you please give me a general idea of where it might be located?

Thank you very much for assistance you can provide.

K. Byrd
Westerville, OH




That should clear up any remaining confusion about whether Fallingwater does or does not have a red tile.
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hypnoraygun



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Missouri

PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Unfortunately, Fallingwater does not have the signature tile


Ahhh haa!!

I would like to say I knew it!, But I didn't.. I had a feeling something was strange that we couldn't come up with a photo of it.

I think we should make sure (If we haven't already) that the homes listed with the tiles have been verified by us in some way. A photo, actual sighting, documentation, or a very reliable source.

I personally don't doubt any of these, I have no idea if I haven't been there. But I did attend service at the First Christian Church in Phoenix, AZ and I can not remember seeing the tile. IF I did see it, it was inside, not outside. Can anyone confirm location of the tile?

Great job to all!! This is fun.
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hypnoraygun



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 561
Location: Missouri

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have we given up on this?
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17470
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No -- and thanks for your helpful photos; they are the only collection of signature tile recordings we have, so far. But I think it's time to stop
speculating, and start collecting data. When a complete photo record of all in situ tiles has been gathered, and any relevant information about
each installation has been assembled, then a presentation can be made that will close the book on the subject.

Let it go on every visitor's list, when touring the Wright catalog, to look for and shoot the red tile. Duplications are no problem; it's just the missing
ones that will hold up the parade. Needless to say, record photos should be "full-frontal" shots. . .

We are perhaps now in the last decade of the period when original owners of Wright properties can be interviewed. . .


SDR
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