Wright Chat

 
FAQ FAQ Register Register
Search Search Profile Profile
Memberlist Memberlist Log in to check your private messages Log in to check your private messages
Usergroups Usergroups Log in Log in

>> Return to SaveWright Home Page

Request aid completing Survey of Usonian Perforated Boards
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 31, 32, 33  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wright Chat Forum Index -> Click Here for General Discussion Posts
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16396
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's an interesting question. I will do some research and get back to you. Without attempting to guess what you're doing -- I like to be surprised, and
the best surprises are ones that have the most content, I think -- I will offer a couple of general observations.

The Sun's rays are essentially parallel as they affect objects lighted by them on the surface of the Earth. So, for the purposes of investigation of spaces
like those found in the average Wright residence, the image cast on a surface opposite a silhouette will appear at virtually the same size as the silhouette
casting the shadow. For reasons I cannot fully supply, the outline of the object's shadow may begin to lose resolution -- edge definition -- in proportion to
its distance from the object casting the shadow.

The angle of the light rays as they encounter a vertical surface -- a house wall, for instance -- is dependent on several factors: location and orientation
of the house, time of year, time of day. This needn't affect the height and width of a shadow, as long as the surface is parallel to the plane in which the
silhouettes are installed. But unless the shadow is cast "normal to" -- directly opposite -- the object, the shape of the object will be altered. That is, a
rectangle will become a parallelogram with any deviation from a "normal" orientation.



You want an average wall-to-perf number, and a distance from a slab to the centerline of a clerestory with perfs ?


SDR


Last edited by SDR on Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5871
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think typical width of a Usonian living room is between 16 and 20 ft.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16396
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are five examples, given in chronological order, from 1938 to 1940, chosen as typical and where good section drawings were available. Height of perf band AFF (above finished floor) = horizontal centerline of the band.

No determination was made as to plan orientation relative to solar orientation.


Bell (built as Feldman) -- perf band c. 10'-2" AFF -- Dist. to opp. wall c. 14'-6"






Pope; gallery, bedroom -- perf band, gallery, 6'-11 1/2" AFF -- Dist. to opp. wall c. 37 1/2" -- perf band, clerestory lantern, c. 97 1/2" AFF -- Dist. to opp. wall (windows) c. 8'-0" (lantern not constructed) -- dist. to opp. plywood 5'-0"




Van Dusen (project) -- perf band, c. 97 1/2" AFF -- Dist to chimney breast, c. 7'-8"






Christie; living room, bathroom -- perf band, living room, c. 97 1/2" AFF -- Dist. to opposite wall (windows) c. 14'-0" -- perf band, bathroom, c. 97 1/2" AFF -- Dist. to opp. wall, c. 9'-6"






MoMA Exhibition house (project) -- perf band, bedroom lantern, c. 97 1/2" AFF -- Lantern is 8'-0" wide -- dist. to opp. wall, left: 8'-0" lantern + 4'-0 = c.12'-0" -- dist. to opp. wall, right (windows): 8'-0" lantern + 2'-0" = c. 10'-0"

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JVS



Joined: 08 Jan 2018
Posts: 23
Location: Asbury, NJ

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knowing more about a work I admire has always increased my enjoyment. Learning about the creative process and deeper characteristics of an aesthetic work doesn't "break the spell", it creates new wonder. This is probably because a new level of things to understand is revealed.

Asking why something is beautiful or interesting, often leads to a series of why questions (the 5 Why approach) trying (not always successfully) to define a root cause. Generally, I find that a good definition of a characteristic needs to have some metric associated with it. Of course, its a matter of personal interest- there are things I keep asking "why" and other things I just accept at some level of understanding.

The remarkable 30+ pages of this thread that have moved the description way beyond "Nice fretwork!" (the zero order observation), have created better understanding of perf boards design. I've looked at some pretty basic characteristics of the geometry of openings and their relationship to each other. To me, these are more fundamental characteristics than say, the dimensions of the board they were cut into. I'm very open to suggestions for other characteristics to investigate- that was one of the motivations for sharing investigations on this forum (the largest collection of perf board admirers I've seen). I view this as exploration; sometimes leading to something valuable, but not guaranteed and usually fun. Trail guides wanted...

Thanks,

-JVS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
JVS



Joined: 08 Jan 2018
Posts: 23
Location: Asbury, NJ

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks SDR and peterm!

I'm still investigating, but SDR is getting close to guessing what I want to figure out. The blur with distance is due to the Sun being an extended source rather than a point source (which would give perfectly crisp shadows).

You've given me enough to work with... need a bit of time to work through an idea.

-JVS
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 8669

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I first heard Glenn Gould in his radio-broadcast performance with Bernstein and the New York Phil, when Lenny came out on stage and renounce any blame for what was about to take place. I saw Gould in a solo concert at U of M in '61, writhing and moaning and crouching as if in pain, but playing beautifully. Yet Landowska's recordings of Well Tempered are definitive.

St. John, Schubert's Mass in G and Berlioz's Requiem are the three pieces I never had the chance to sing, and now, alas, it's too late!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 8669

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fuzziness of edges is caused by the penumbra, which see on Wiki.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16396
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, John; I think I now understand what you're doing, and why.

I was going to suggest a couple more parameters for your consideration -- number of shape edges that are parallel to each other; number
of shape edges that are parallel to the constraining rectangle -- but your devised perf exhibits those characteristics, so I have nothing to add.

I look forward to further developments. In fact I don't have a clue as to what you will propose next . . . !


In my view, there are a number of perf designs, apparently making up the majority, that fall into a group which shares a "look" (that's non-
scientific lingo), and a smaller number of perfs which are idiosyncratic. I think this aspect of the catalog will be worth pursuing as part of the
overall perf study ?

SDR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16396
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While we await further developments -- those who may have liked Bach's BWV 548 "Wedge" and wonder where to go next, here's a dandy companion piece,
for reasons that will become clear. Here is one of the score-scrolling videos; this is a particularly entertaining prelude and fugue to watch unfold, and by
some miracle it seems also to be the best performance available on YouTube, of almost half a dozen: it is at once transparent, straightforward, and subtly
registered. The performer isn't credited.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pfnkz1cFp8g

SDR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
outside in



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if many of you know this, but Wright was notorious for continuing the roof framing over clerestory windows without a header - meaning that many framing members rested directly on the window frame. Some claim that the fascia boards acted to transfer loads to those beams that rested on the mullions, which would provide support, but I've always wondered if the perforated plywood panels were a way by which Wright would provide a header to support the rafters above. Even more fascinating was his desire to make a structural component completely ornamental - i.e. decorated structure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16396
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The "decorated structure" is a delightful concept in Wright . . .

Hmm. Once perforated, the panels could provide effective support only at their ends, one would think. The use of the perfs as structure would depend on their being fastened securely in place, and not hinged . . .

On the other hand, being made of plywood they might assist in absorbing shear loads. Maybe that explains the more or less unrealistic 1/16" clearance between sash and frames, on the drawings ? Again, the
Swiss-cheese-like nature of the panels would make them largely ineffective, it would seem.

The struts (so-called on the SDS) are visible at Rosenbaum, where at first glance they appear to be 1x material; what's going on at Jacobs: 2x2s ?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Wfm_rosenbaum_house_interior.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dc/Jacobs_First_House_-_living_room_01.jpg/1920px-Jacobs_First_House_-_living_room_01.jpg

How's this for organic ? Let the clerestory glass be 1/4" plate, and let it take a vertical load . . . even if some of the sash is operable. Unorthodox, sure -- right up Wright's street . . . !

SDR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
outside in



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

there were no struts at Jacobs - there were only nails to hold the top of the wall and the window frames together - hence the need for continuous shelving for lateral bracing. The vertical continuity was still lacking, and struts were added at Rosenbaum.

The glass in the clerestories at Jacobs is all double-strength glass as well - so SOMEONE knew of its potential load bearing function.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16396
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This full-size detail sheet, from Mono 5, p 231, doesn't show the clerestory. I see two different "continuous nailing heads" at left, capping the window
wall and board wall, respectively. Neither is anything like a structural header, as you say. No header or blocking appears immediately above these.

"Plan of openings," far right, shows the composite mullions or posts of the window (French door) wall. Did any reason surface during your work with
this house, John, for the shape of the join in the middle of these posts -- the angled "prow," as if intended to be exposed ? How do you suppose Mr
Wright thought the female half of that molded joint would be milled ? The mind boggles. Look at all the angled cuts and moldings to the soffits, fascia
boards and "nailing heads"; would any of those beveled joints be strictly necessary or even advantageous ? They certainly make a nice drawing.

Of course I have no idea whether this is the final drawing nor if it represents the built condition. I note that the center of the wall sandwich is given an
end-grain wood indication, as if the drafter had momentarily forgotten the intended means of construction . . .


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
outside in



Joined: 29 Jul 2006
Posts: 1148

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had these drawings when we worked on the house, and it was almost comical to see what was drawn vs. built. For example, the vertical support used at the doors consisted of a 2x6 with 1/4 inch offsets at the doors for hinges (1" width exposed to the exterior). The interior had a 3/4 inch thick casing applied to act as a stop.

Many of the details looked like a HS student had drawn them, so its difficult to determine if they were attempting to duplicate sketches or developed them on their own with little direction. Obviously someone simplified these details during construction.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16396
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've forgotten the story -- was an apprentice assigned to this pioneering structure ? Who was the builder ?

SDR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wright Chat Forum Index -> Click Here for General Discussion Posts All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 31, 32, 33  Next
Page 32 of 33

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP