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The Lamberson House for $185K????
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Wrightgeek



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Westerville, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

peterm-

Unfortunately, it looks like the honeymoon for you as a newer member of this forum is officially over.

Welcome to the club, as you have now been impugned or attacked by RJH, not once, but twice in one day, however snidely or indirectly it may have been, as have many of the rest of us here.

In order to avoid further unnecessary frustration on your part, please bear in mind that the Haynes Residence is one of the very few absolutely 100% authentic, beyond the shadow of a doubt Usonians still standing in the U.S. that was conceived and executed in its entirety by Mr. Wright, and Mr. Wright only.

I certainly understand that you are upset by the implication that your soon to be new home is not an authentic FLW design, but above all you must consider the source of the attack, and understand that this viewpoint is in the minority, which in reality is probably a minority of one.

And last, but certainly not least, please do not forget to use those capital letters in your future posts.

On behalf of the vast majority of us here on the forum, our apologies.


Last edited by Wrightgeek on Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5626
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrightgeek and all:

i'm proud to be a member of your club! but i'm still sticking to my lower case... Laughing
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DavidC



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5998
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wrightgeek wrote:
peterm-

Unfortunately, it looks like the honeymoon for you as a newer member of this forum is officially over.

Welcome to the club, as you have now been impugned or attacked by RJH, not once, but twice in one day, however snidely or indirectly it may have been, as have many of the rest of us here.

In order to avoid further unnecessary frustration on your part, please bear in mind that the Haynes Residence is one of the very few absolutely 100% authentic, beyond the shadow of a doubt Usonians still standing in the U.S. that was conceived and executed in its entirety by Mr. Wright, and Mr. Wright only.

I certainly understand that you are upset by the implication that your soon to be new home is not an authentic FLW design, but above all you must consider the source of the attack, and understand that this viewpoint is in the minority, which in reality is probably a minority of one.

And last, but certainly not least, please do not forget to use those capital letters in your future posts.

On behalf of the vast majority of us here on the forum, our apologies.



very well stated. and i'm happy to participate as part of the 'no-caps' club, too!!!


david
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RJH



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rookie,

Don’t get your panties in a wad. You are a rookie here on a chat site that contains the country’s best Wright enthusiasts in the world. I am an expert on Wright Usonians, I have personally restored a genuine Wright Usonian and I am the owner of a Wright Usonian restoration consulting firm. I am sorry, whether you want to hear it or not there is something askew of the Lamberson design.

Alarm bells sound when I hear comments:

-
Quote:
There is no entry to speak of


-
Quote:
the interior somehow lacks that heart-stopping beauty of other FLW homes.
Even Haynes when the interior was stripped had heart stopping attention. I have had children enter the house and they even notice the drama. I have been inside only 1 other Wright Usonian w/o “heart stopping beauty” and that was the Winn House overseen by Jack Howe.

DRN's Sweeton house was terrible shape before he bought it. When I visited that house it still had the "heart stopping interior" firmly in place.

-
Quote:
Klunky kitchen.


- Fact that the house was not included in the Monograph nor was it extensively featured in the House + Home article. Something deeply wrong.

- There is a disharmonious blend of 30-60 coupled with right angles floor grid. Wright would have never have done this.

- Paul Ringstrom visiited the property but posted no endorsement.

- The exterior approach area appears nice. However, photos around rear especially with windows make it appear awkward. One of my “secrets” in judging a genuine Wright Usonian is walk around the exterior of the house and find a view of the house that no one would ever logically see. For instance, I was at dtc’s Dobkins house. The approach was outstanding. However, we later walked around the MBR wing where nobody would ever go. The view from that spot was absolutely amazing. Bedroom wing softly set into the earth with a beautiful copper roof. Wright at his perfection in a place no one would ever view from. Lamberson lacks this. No view on an entire Wright Usonian should ever be awkward no matter where you stand.

I would suggest seeking John Geiger’s opinion.

Also, Alto furniture in a Wright design is like mixing oil and water and should never never be attempted. You scare the hell out of me!

A good owner of Wright houses pay careful attention to the smallest details which I sense you lack by your improper use of grammar.
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DavidC



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5998
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RJH wrote:
Rookie.......



..... blah, blah, blah ......... junk .......... troll........ blah, blah, blah ..... more junk ....... more troll ....... blah, blah, blah.........

(repeat above)



Someone certainly would appear to be in their manic phase at the moment.



David
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7616

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: With due deference to e e cummings and k d lang, ... Reply with quote

... since computer technology has made observing the rules of grammar and style easier than ever to follow, I shall continue to use capital letters whenever called for.

While Wright's direct involvement in the design of many of the late houses is questionable, I believe the use of the unique grid argues favorably for Lamberson having been under as much of the master's control as any house of the period. What connection Lamberson has with Besinger's McNider design is a mystery.
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Wrightgeek



Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 1548
Location: Westerville, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As stated by RJH:

Quote:
Also, Alto furniture in a Wright design is like mixing oil and water and should never never be attempted. You scare the hell out of me!

A good owner of Wright houses pay careful attention to the smallest details which I sense you lack by your improper use of grammar.


That being said, I believe Aalto is the architect/designer, and Alto is a type of saxophone. But of course, as "a good owner of a Wright house" who "pays careful attention to the smallest details" and uses proper grammar at all times, you probably already knew that.

BTW, I believe there should be a comma between "never never" in the above quote, unless it was meant to say "never ever"?


Last edited by Wrightgeek on Sat Aug 16, 2008 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Frankie-Oh



Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 27
Location: Iowa

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:25 pm    Post subject: Lamberson House Reply with quote

I did not mean for my comments, quoted above, to in any way indicate that I doubt Wright's authorship of the Lamberson Home. It is ludicrous to suggest that my personal aesthetic reactions are in any way evidence to support any claim that this is not a Wright-designed home. Obviously documentation trumps all. Even though this does not rank as one of my favorite designs, nothing I saw made me doubt Wright's authorship. Peterm, I've enjoyed reading your posts on how you plan to restore the home, and I have no doubts that you will make it sing. Please don't construe the way my comments have been used as evidence that I support such misguided conclusions and mean-spiritedness.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5626
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Lamberson House Reply with quote

Frankie-Oh wrote:
Please don't construe the way my comments have been used as evidence that I support such misguided conclusions and mean-spiritedness.


no problem. it didn't even cross my mind. thanks for your encouragement!

peter
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RJH



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with TriGuy is he wanted a Haynes tour and I turned him down. I offered to rent the house to him but his wife said he was too cheap.

No magic:





Perhaps Rookie, TriGuy and WrightGeek can post some of their photos? Seem it is always SDR or myself posting pics here.
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DavidC



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5998
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RJH wrote:
The problem with TriGuy is he wanted a Haynes tour and I turned him down. I offered to rent the house to him but his wife said he was too cheap....


Hmmmmmmm ..... as opposed to your delusional fantasies, it seems the following is the entire PM conversation re a possible Haynes tour:


#1) - "From: TnGuy
To: RJH
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:39 pm
Subject: Haynes House visit
Hello:

I hope you don't mind that I'm writing you (I'm TnGuy at the FLW forum). My wife and I will be traveling to Indiana (we live in East Tennessee) to tour Samara with Dr. Christan on Friday, October 12th. Since we will be relatively close-by, I thought I would ask if it would be at all possible to do an informal tour of your wonderful home the day prior? If not, that's ok - and I certainly hope there's no offense in asking you, either. I just wasn't sure if you allowed folks from the FLW forum to look at your home up close. Thank you for your time.


Sincerely,

David (last name)
"


#2) - "From: RJH
To: TnGuy
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:07 pm
Subject: Re: Haynes House visit
Quote:
TOURS ARE NOT AVAILABLE:
The mission of the John D. Haynes house is to provide the rare opportunity for Frank Lloyd Wright enthusiasts to actually experience living in a genuine Frank Lloyd Wright designed Usonain house. One must fully experience actually living in the house as Mr. Wright intended to fully understand Mr. Wright’s vision of “organic” architecture. Therefore, tours are not available.


_________________
www.HaynesHouseLLC.com.
"


#3) - "From: TnGuy
To: RJH
Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:17 pm
Subject: Re: Haynes House visit
Thank you for taking the time to reply. And thank you anyway.


Sincerely,

David (last name)
"


End of all PM conversations re Haynes.


RJH wrote:
Perhaps Rookie, TriGuy and WrightGeek can post some of their photos? Seem it is always SDR or myself posting pics here.


And what RJH convieniently forgets to mention here when the conversation turns to pictures, is the time he decided to re-post for himself without asking permission some of the personal pictures I had taken while touring Arrowhead House (Robert Green) in Atlanta last year.

Shame on you. Tsk, tsk, tsk.


Oh, and by the way Mr. Perfect Penmenship - the name is TNGUY ..... Rolling Eyes


Please take your medication, it can make a world of difference.


Thank You, RJH.


David
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RJH



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TnGuy. You take yourself too seriously! LOL!
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Deke



Joined: 27 Jul 2006
Posts: 692
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just got back from the Getty and poured over the Lamberson drawings they have. There are some really interesting drawings in that file:

--a site plane that includes a large "future swimming pool" with a footprint almost as large as the house itself.

--a nice winter presentation drawing with icicles hanging from eaves and snow piles on the retaining wall.

--the original scheme was more rectilinear...square grid not triangular which might explain why the grid is still square.

--One plan is interestingly revised...one side of the drawing...one wing...is torn off and rotated 30-40 degrees...again perhaps in the adjustment from scheme one to scheme two.

--The first plans of scheme two (the existing scheme) are bigger in scale. There is, for instance an extra wall under the carport that hides an entrance to the kitchen, and the bedrooms are larger. I would imagine the scale was reduced for budgetary reasons and wonder if the design didn't suffer from the reduction in scale (think Price Tower).

--there are a lot of details...including designs for built in furnture: the trapezoidal dining table with two triangular extensions, various side tables, and something called a "desk and keep" for the bedroom. What's a keep?

--There is also a design for a bedroom addition though it appears to be a lot of effort to add just one bedroom.

Maybe I'll look up the corrrespondence next time. Could answer some questions. Not sure how anyone can deny the provenance with all those neat drawings and letters.

Count me in for the furniture building party! Have straight-edge, will travel.

Deke
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RJH



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 682
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This new information may explain a lot of things.

Was the swimming pool off the wall with the small windows above the settee? This would explain why that entire side/rear of the house appears awkward. Perhaps this was space for the “future swimming pool.?”

The torn wing/wing rotation was a common occurrence. Nothing wrong with that. I’m sure you saw tape marks. All they did was use Scotch tape!

Too bad the wall in front of the workspace entrance wasn’t incorporated. It would have smoothed the entry. The low wall was typical there for service facility – hiding the garbage cans. It works nicely and I am surprised it isn’t used in today’s architecture designs.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Posted: Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:57 am Post subject:

"This new information" ?
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