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Sikkens Cetol 1 & 23 Plus / Natural Light
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dtc



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sikkens unlike Spar varnish is an open finish, not closed. Cetol 1 is a penetrating finish giving protection from within the wood. Cetol 2 & 3 creates a open flexible film, which is loaded with iron oxide. These last coats reflect back the majority of the damaging Ultra Violet rays, which is found in all visible light.
Remember from time to time casement windows and doors need to be washed down to remove pollen, dirt, spider droppings etc. A damp cloth with just water and dry cloth follow up is all that is needed to clean the wood to bring back the original satin sheen.
As for the 3 to 4 year maintenance program, Sikkens recommends that the wood should be washed down with TSP and some household bleach (which removes pollution and any organic growth) followed with a clear water rinse.
There was no need to sand or scrape for the the open finish moves and flexes with the movement of the wood. Apply one coat of Cetol 23 and you are good to go for another 4 years.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5623
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a bit confused. You say tat Sikkens is an open finish, yet it has a sheen it? Can it really have both?

Also, you mentioned in an earlier post that you removed the Sikkens finish at one point. Why did you need to do that?
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pharding



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 2203
Location: River Forest, Illinois

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

modern-eyes wrote:
Peter,

I have a house from built in 1950 that has horizontal cypress siding. The siding was painted when I bought the house in 2001, and was already starting to peel back then. The paint is really starting to come off now, so I have to do something in the spring.

I have been reading these posts for a few years now waiting for a definite answer to your question. I want to remove the paint and apply a finish that will let the wood look like wood, but also protect it. I also don't want spend a month or two, ( every year or two ) maintaining the coating.

So........ I have a friend who is crazy like me about finding the right products, or methods of doing things with our cars, houses......everything. My friend is an expert at cleaning things, and has had a power-washing business for 20 years now. He strips decks and houses, but is very selective about how to strip existing finishes. He won't use high water pressure on all jobs when there is a detergent that can gently remove it. He also doesn't want to apply finishes that will be hard to maintain, because the customers usually hires him do it when the time comes.

Sorry for all the blabbering.......

When I told my friend that I was thinking of using sikkens, he started to laugh so hard......I didn't know I was sooo funny. He told me that Sikkens stuff keeps him in business because it doesn't last that long, and the maintenance is a real pain.

In the end, what I wanted to say was...... after the wood is completely stripped, he said to use a product ( that he would have to get for me ) called Ready Seal. There's only one step, after cleaning, for full protection. You can put it on, and when it comes time where you need to refresh it, just wash the house and reapply, same the first time. You can't buy this in the store, you need to have a contractor set up an account with the company.

I know other people on here like Sikkens, and I believe that the stuff must work if they like it, so I am a little confused too.

On my house the architect specified boiled linseed oil (1949) for the siding. I also have a film finish on the roof overhangs too, and it peels like yours . It's going to be fun working upside down ( about 6 foot overhang by about 300 feet, with v-groove.

I may be selling my house, so I may not get a chance to do the job. Did you sell the California house? I saw that it was removed from the website. I called Crosby Doe about listing my house and they said they were ready when I was........Now I have to take some better pictures.

Sorry for the long post......... Louie



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If I understand your post correctly, it sounds like you may be considering power washing or water blasting the finish off of the exterior of your house. I own a 1901 FLW house that is primarily clad in cypress that was painted originally. I will share a few insights.

It would be an enormous mistake to power wash or water blast off the finish off of a wood clad house. It forces water and moisture into the wall assembly. Only bad things can happen as a result including mold and gradual deterioration of the wall assembly and materials, including the wood siding. The situation is made even worse with vapor barriers on the interior side of exterior walls. The ideal way IMO to remove an exterior finish is to chemically strip the finish with the gentlest product that will do the job. Tests are critical to arrive at the best solution for each specific circumstance.
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Paul Harding FAIA Owner and Restoration Architect for FLW's 1901 E. Arthur Davenport House, the First Prairie School House in Chicago | www.harding.com | LinkedIn
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dtc



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry I was not clear in my explanation of Sikkens.
I will try to simplify...
When using Cetol 1 & 23 one is applying 3 coats of finish.
Cetol 1 is a penetrating first coat.
Cetol 23 is a more viscous coating which creates a film on top of but bonding to the 1st coat. It is this later coating in combination with the 1st coat that creates a open film on the surface. A closed film/coating like Spar or a Urethane or a lacquer will not flex or change its dimensions as the wood it is on, and as a result will fail.

I will reread my posts, for I do not remember posting that I removed the finish.
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dtc



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALL previous coatings must be removed before Sikkens is applied.
Many folks do not prepare the wood surfaces properly. Traces of old finishes still remain and of course Sikkens will not adhere. Also the wood should not be sanded beyond 100 grit.
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pharding



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 2203
Location: River Forest, Illinois

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanding of exterior wood finishes is not desirable if the original finishes were rough sawn. For rough sawn finishes a stiff brush works best. Again testing is critical to find the right type of bristles.
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dtc



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I have used Sikkens for the past 8 years on the Dobkins and could not be any happier with the results."

A quote from my first post on this topic that I would like to update:
"...past 8 years" should read 12 years.
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dtc



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The original wood finish on Affleck, Reisely and Dobkins was sanded to the same degree as all their interior wood.
They were not rough sawn.

As a matter of fact every usonian I have visited displays exterior wood and interior with the same degree of sanding.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5623
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very few Usonians had rough sawn boards. In fact, the only one I can think of is Sturgess.

dtc- I admire your thoroughness in maintaining your house. The way I understand it, you must need to sand the exterior of your house every four years.
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dtc



Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 739

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter...i guess I'm not clear enough...every 3 to 4 years all I do is wash, rinse and dry the wood . The next day I apply one additional coat of Cetol 23.

I must spend a total of 8 hrs. work each year on maintaining the exterior wood.
I pick a sunny low humidity day where I can enjoy the weather, the house and the beer.

I repeat, there is no additional sanding...I do not start from scratch.
I suggest that you should take a trip, visit a house or two and see first hand
how Sikkens performs when properly applied.

p.s. There is even a quicker system. Sikkens "Log and Cabin". Only 2 coats are neccessary. I applied it to my studios...it works well on rough sawed cedar.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5623
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dtc wrote:
ALL previous coatings must be removed before Sikkens is applied.
Many folks do not prepare the wood surfaces properly. Traces of old finishes still remain and of course Sikkens will not adhere. Also the wood should not be sanded beyond 100 grit.


Maybe this is what caused me to assume that you needed to sand each time...

Thanks for all of the info on Sikkens. I'm not sure if I will be able to be as meticulous in maintaining the wood as you have been. Kudos to you, dtc!
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modern-eyes



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 29
Location: Bergen County NJ

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Paul (pharding),

Thanks for your concern, but I would never power wash the house. My friend Turbowash only uses that for decks on the houses that he works on. For the cedar houses, I know he uses stripper.

I sanded a small area (with a Festool RO150 sander and hepa vacuum) and the paint came off without damaging the wood. I know we all hate paint, but the wood looks brand new under there.

I have a different model ( Festool LS130 ) sander that allows you to make custom profiles to fit different applications, and I modified it to fit the recess between the boards. The boards on my house are shiplapped, and are a smaller unit in height than the wright houses. The full boards are 9 inches, but after the rebates they look like 7 inches.

Do you think I'm nuts for wanting to sand the whole house. I also have a bunch of windows and doors made from redwood that are painted on the outside. There are also 20 four foot wide ribbon windows that have removable geometric redwood grills that are painted too. The paint is peeling off nicely and it looks like they went right over the old finish. There's a transparent film under the peeling paint, which is also blistering.

I know it's not a Wright house (even though it looks like one, and the architect was friends with Wright) but I would sure appreciate to know what you think about repainting (or doing it right and using the wood finish instead).

. I set up a full blown workshop in the garage to do this stuff, and now that I'm ready, I may be moving.

Maybe I could post a photo ( if I knew how ), I think you guys would really like this house. If not just let me know and I'll stop posting about it.

Thanks again......Louie
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14603
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure we'd like to see it ! You may e-mail me a small collection of photos and I will post them -- if you like.


SDR
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5623
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't wait to see some photos!
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pharding



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 2203
Location: River Forest, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sanding and modifying the reveals is not recommended. The orignal boards were machined in a shop with extreme control. The use of power sanders should be avoided or minimized.
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