Wright Chat

 
FAQ FAQ Register Register
Search Search Profile Profile
Memberlist Memberlist Log in to check your private messages Log in to check your private messages
Usergroups Usergroups Log in Log in

>> Return to SaveWright Home Page

FLW and mortar joints questions
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wright Chat Forum Index -> Click Here for General Discussion Posts
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Paul Ringstrom



Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 3742
Location: Mason City, IA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:39 pm    Post subject: Raked joints at Robie House not original Reply with quote

I was able to stop by the Robie House last week and get the history of the mortar joints from the docents. The raked joints were done as part of a tuckpointing project in the 50s or 60s. The original mortar joints were concave. This was discovered when they removed a shed on the east side of the garage that had the original hidden behind it.

See current photo: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45747476@N00/1620165098/

This format is supposed to post the photo here but does not seem to work. Help.
[img]http://www.flickr.com/photos/45747476@N00/1620165098/[/img]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. Are you saying that the photo shows the original (concave) condition ?

Is it possible that Wright experimented with different treatments, on an inconspicuous part of the house ? As it would have been difficult to change the work already completed, it would have been left as is ? Or, that he wasn't present for the initial bricklaying ? The photo doesn't look "Wright" to me. . .but it might match the early interior photo shown earlier.

Thanks for your help with this.

SDR

PS -- I don't see anything wrong with the photo protocol as presented -- it *should* show up. . .

Anybody ?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DavidC



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5998
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting that, Paul. Very interesting, indeed. Especially if Dana-Thomas (which predates Robie) has raked joints.

As SDR mentioned, the concave treatment doesn't look very 'Wright-ian' to the eye. I guess the mind (and eye) expects something a bit more recessed to 'fit' with the overall horizontality - and distinct linear (i.e. - non-curved) lines of Robie.


David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More furnitecture* while we await developments. . .






(The top would read a little thicker than in this fiberboard mock-up.)

SDR

* http://www.designcommunity.com/forums/topic-3304.html&highlight=furnitecture
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Paul Ringstrom



Joined: 17 Sep 2005
Posts: 3742
Location: Mason City, IA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the photo show the original (concave) condition as it is now restored.

I was told that the raked condition that we were familiar with was done in the 50s as part of a misguided tuck pointing "restoration". Their restoration architect, Karen Sweeney, has determined that the original was concave throughout the building.

Please keep in mind that I believe that Wright was not in the country during the construction of the Robie House and that that is why it came in on budget of about $60,000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah. Glad to have this resolved. I wonder if he would have managed it any
differently in person.

Here's a partial view (from Thos A Heinz) of the Martin house dining room.
(This pic has a greenish cast in the book; I wonder what the true colors are.
This is the way it came out, rephotographed under a warm CF lamp. . .)

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
DavidC



Joined: 02 Sep 2006
Posts: 5998
Location: Oak Ridge, TN

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul - thanks for adding to our information vis a vie Robie House's mortar joints. Makes me wonder if FLW ever commented on them ending up being concave - as opposed to him possibly spec'ing them to be raked and then returning later to find them concave (pure speculation on my part). If that were the case, removing and/or grinding the joints to make them raked would have been a rather huge (and expensive) undertaking.


SDR - thanks for posting the Martin House pic. It shows the flush head joints being there, too. And it looks like they may have matching mortar coloring - though it's tough to say for sure from the photo.

I really enjoy your above design. I like the look of the 'support-wings' underneath, too. Do you plan on executing a trial piece? If so, what materials would you choose?


David
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, David. That mock-up/prototype/sketch no longer exists, and there are no plans for a further exploration at this time. The intention was a small eating table with integral lanterns, but it ended up looking more like something you'd see as a stand-up public desk in a bank -- or something.

This big dining table is somewhat more successful, I think. Depending on circumstances, it could be built with a masonry pier, or of more portable material (!).




Here, too, the central "island," intended to be the serving and display area, might want to be suppressed a bit more. Many of my dining table designs separate the top surface into zones, differentiated by material and sometimes by surface elevation, as here. Lanterns might also be placed on the "masonry" piers.

I have just retired from my cabinetmaking career, and have no shop at present. I have enjoyed designing for my own amusement, concentrating on tables and the occasional architectural fantasy, in recent years.


Last edited by SDR on Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:46 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Ed Jarolin



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Wyoming

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR,

Very interesting. I rather like the last table design you posted, though I agree with the notion of suppressing the support element. Expressing it as a contrasting color, though flush with the tabletop might be an avenue to consider. How stable is the table? Any extra weight required in the base?

Have you done any riffs on Usonian tables/furniture? A Usonian style fretwork pattern flush with the table surface and lit from below through frosted glass could be quite striking.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1341
Location: Burlington, WA

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="TnGuy"]And it looks like they may have matching mortar coloring - though it's tough to say for sure from the photo.
/quote]

Not only is the vertical mortal integral, but the deep horizontal rakes are gold leafed. The Martin complex will rival Dana as the ultimate organic prairie vision made possible when an artistic genius is allowed to run amuck with no concern (to him) for cost.

An interesting interior aspect are the tiny, brown, floor tiles that start outside the entry and continue throughout the main floor and out to the huge veranda. Given the formality and scale of Martin, it is an interesting juxtaposition of the grand and the small. The only comparison with the unique Martin complex would be Dana. While Dana was intended to be more accessible socially, Martin's almost baronial formality is tempered by exquisite attention to detail with no less beauty and craftsmanship. When the wisteria fireplace is rebuilt, coupled with the furnishings and the fact that there are more different, complex art glass designs found in any single Wright residence, I have no doubt Martins importance will be vaulted to a deserved higher level.

It was no coincidence Frank kept the floor plan conspicuously on display for so many years.

BTW, although I don't think Yahara should have been built, the interior finish details are exemplary. The exterior color needs to be addressed; it looks like a gray cement shoe box with none of the warmth of the interior-and I still don't think the siting does the intended design justice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yahara may echo Unity Temple, where the coarse and monolithic/monochromatic exterior surrounds a lively and colorful interior ?

The Martin floor plan is an especially intriguing and overt "plaid" of material and space. Masterly. . .

I've never heard that Martin had (or was to have) gilded brick mortar.

If a client signs on the dotted line, he presumably wants what his architect has specified. Without this largesse, great works of architecture remain unbuilt. . .?

SDR
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To answer David's question, I have made a couple of overt homages to Usonian work, on paper:




Here's another masonry-plinth table design:






Another "landscaped" table fantasy:


These tables are designed specifically for the dining experience, a gathering, with a personal space in front of each diner and a shared element in the center.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Additional furnitecture -- a TV could be displayed on this piece:


A gate-leg table of boards and glass:
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14609
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2007 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One more. Like the pier tables above, this table and credenza are more than a decade
old. If drawn today, the table might have the piers placed closer together (seating
two on each side) and greater cantilevers at each end (seating one, two or three).



I forgot to answer the question about stability. In making tables for commercial/corporate service, we found that a cylindrical base at least one-third the diameter of a round top, down to 16"/48" if the base had some weight added, was adequately stable. These plinth bases, rectangular in shape and with inherent mass, should be fine with wood or glass tops. (The one immediately above, with its outriggers, would be exceptionally firm, of course.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
gustavo



Joined: 20 Oct 2007
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2007 2:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR, WOW I love all your funitucture, really awesome.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wright Chat Forum Index -> Click Here for General Discussion Posts All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP