Wright Chat

 
FAQ FAQ Register Register
Search Search Profile Profile
Memberlist Memberlist Log in to check your private messages Log in to check your private messages
Usergroups Usergroups Log in Log in

>> Return to SaveWright Home Page

Model of Taliesin 1
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wright Chat Forum Index -> Click Here for General Discussion Posts
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18521
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim

The attention given to material colors in your work here is admirable and interesting; on the digital model these could be played with indefinitely, I guess. Wright's few
words on the matter remind me of Schindlers prescriptions for the How house---referencing the bark and the foliage of eucalyptus, along with natural gray of concrete.

I wonder how you achieved the fair curvature of your site model surfaces; none of the usual visible contour lines here. Is the surface also foamcore ?

I think you probably made the best decision about the windows; they look fine. Does your digital model have a completed interior ?

S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1498

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doubt it's a first, but I was surprised how well scoring and curving the 1/4" foam board worked to get a smooth surface to paint or glue on an HO mat. wasn't looking forward to the time and material of a stepped terrain of this size and complexity (to me anyway) and wadded paper covered with plaster of Paris was not appealing at all. Using the foam board just popped into my head as I looked at a couple sheets standing up against the wall.

Unfortunately, the digital model is not completed on the interior. When I address the trim color I'll copy the file and see how it goes. Other than the living room, the interior of T1 was not actually that unusual, but it would still be nice to have an overhead plan view to go along with the two models.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
m.perrino



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 306

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outstanding work. Simply, truly OUTSTANDING !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18521
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Sep 28, 2019 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most interesting. You managed compound curves, it appears. Did you take any process photos ? It just looks fabulous.

S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1498

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR wrote:
Most interesting. You managed compound curves, it appears. Did you take any process photos ? It just looks fabulous.

S

Thanks again Stephen.... never occurred to me to document anything! I occasionally took photos which did help let me know what was and was not working, and don’t think I still have any.
Good point about the compound bendss. The southeast lower corner was the worst condition. I’m okay at figuring out geometries when I know I need to get “from A to B”. In that case there were two curved sheets meeting at 90 degrees so I had to fashion a third to connect them. It actually ended up being three elongated more or less pie-shaped concentric pieces to maintain the slope as it turned at the corner. It was tedious, but with foam board, a sharp knife made it a fairly easy process. Adjacent pieces were not too bad. It was neat that I could simply raise or lower the curved sheets and attach them to the model walls when trying to mimic the terrain as accurately as possible.

Frankly, there was brute manipulation at times, and it was not quite the seamless affair I might have made it sound like!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1498

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

m.perrino wrote:
Outstanding work. Simply, truly OUTSTANDING !

Thanks, I appreciate that!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JJM2



Joined: 11 Oct 2018
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JimM wrote:
Okay... first, thanks again to everyone. Promised responses:

JJM2... I appreciate that, and no doubt you have a good understanding of the challenge! I've never looked into how 3D models are printed. I assume you still have to do a layout of some sort and "input" dimensions, etc? Also, where did you find the information for the North elevation (back of hayloft/tower/garage? This is the only area of I've never seen photographed this early, and didn't want to speculate too much. There's only one view from a long distance in the Taylor Woolley collection. Of course, we know at the time Wright was already making changes here as well as to the house and studio. If there is reference material, though, I'd love to see it...


Yeah, the backside of the tower and hayloft are the biggest gray areas for me. The postcard showing the farm side of the courtyard gate on p.39 of Randolph Henning's FLLW's Taliesin cleared up that area. I will need to revise my model based on that and your work, but am still holding out hope that someone will dig up a postcard or personal photo that shows that area for T1. There has to be a shot of someone on a horse, or standing by a carriage or car up by the garage. Fingers crossed!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9735

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On page 7 of the 4th Qtr. 1980 "FLW Newsletter," published by Thomas Heinz, is a photo of the north end showing the tower. According to Edgar Tafel, who obtained some early photos from Maginel, it probably is from the 1914 iteration of Taliesin. I have never seen one unequivocally of Taliesin I from that angle. There is a wing along the west side of the drive, which you don't show, but is included in the photo, so unless that wing was added earlier than the fire, this photo must be of T-II. The garage door is on the west façade, as you show, but plans in both Hitchcock and Storrer indicate it was to be on the north side. What was your source for the orientation and the piers flanking the garage door, and how did you determine that they were of T-I?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18521
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't find historical evidence of the New England attached farmhouse type, in the Midwest. Was Wright looking at any formal or functional precedent when he was drawing Taliesin's continuous multipurpose structure ?

https://dreamnewengland.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/summer-in-new-england/

https://www.frederick-biebesheimer3.com/21-connected-farms.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folly_Farm,_Sulhamstead#/media/File:Lutyens_houses_and_gardens_(1921)_(14577287160).jpg

S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18521
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fiesole, 1911 ?


Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1498

PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick Grant wrote:
On page 7 of the 4th Qtr. 1980 "FLW Newsletter," published by Thomas Heinz, is a photo of the north end showing the tower. According to Edgar Tafel, who obtained some early photos from Maginel, it probably is from the 1914 iteration of Taliesin. I have never seen one unequivocally of Taliesin I from that angle. There is a wing along the west side of the drive, which you don't show, but is included in the photo, so unless that wing was added earlier than the fire, this photo must be of T-II. The garage door is on the west façade, as you show, but plans in both Hitchcock and Storrer indicate it was to be on the north side. What was your source for the orientation and the piers flanking the garage door, and how did you determine that they were of T-I?


Roderick... the Newsletter you reference mentions 1917 or 1918, which by that time Wright was well on his way to T3! However, there's a long shot of that area under construction in the Taylor Woolley series. The walls are sheathed and there was an obvious opening between two clearly seen piers, verifying the garage access was altered from where originally indicated (there were a number of other discrepancies with those commonly published plans). The piers can also be seen in other T1 photos taken from the front of the tower. The Woolley photo indicates a continuous facade along the back side. Other than the known hayloft structure, which takes up most of its length, it was not possible to discern any other features. The windows I show in the garage are about the only pure speculation I'm aware of in the model. One revision to my digital model will be to the walled terrace next to the porte cocheres... there are very early photos with considerable foliage crowded in there. It's possible it may have been originally intended as a sitting area of sorts as on the referenced plans, but perhaps the inclusion of the hill garden seat took it's place.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1498

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just for the record... "final" Taliesin 1 images (updated roofing, plaster, masonry, trim, and a few new views):
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6n8o6q3fj0cyakr/AAD9c2qBWySLJ7zgCCyNjQf_a?dl=0

Repost of link to physical model:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8zy1xabdp9qp07c/AACoQu1wf3iQu3EElN9cF9XAa?dl=0
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18521
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thank you; I'm sure the community thanks you; Mr Wright would thank you.

Taliesin I looks fine. I can see things obscured in photos, like the bevel molding on the roof fascia. (He gave himself a simpler roof detail than those on almost any of his earlier client houses ?)

Thanks especially for the final two photos in your set; they explain the roof-top folly for me as never before. And the last shot compares this construction, in close-up, to the tower roofs in the distance: well done !

S
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9735

PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to disagree with Olga: I think the Holsteins look better than the Guernseys. There is more contrast. Guernseys would blend too much into the background.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1498

PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR wrote:
And the last shot compares this construction, in close-up, to the tower roofs in the distance: well done !S


Yes, although not part of the original construction, perhaps what ended up the most significant structural element was created simply by need:
Function: vent kitchen
followed by...
Form: what better way to accomplish that than by interweaving a miniature roof system which at the same time references T1 pinwheeling about it's site along the tower axis? Genius, and Wright thought it important enough to duplicate in T2.

I'm thinking about a new model, but there are too many choices! Fortunately, "unbuilts" are being wonderfully addressed, but which others built or not would be of interest? TWest in the 30's and 40's was similar to T1 in that as a winter camp, it was a much purer concept in those years compared to what it became, so a very early TWest is of interest... but then the original Coonley and Pew are favorites. Regardless, available information is a consideration, since I don't think I could expend as much time and effort as T1 required-for all its basic simplicity!

Btw, the stranglehold of T1 has not completely loosened. I've lately been playing with "Taliesin 2020", a re-interpretation of how one might apply certain elements to a contemporary one-bedroom house, on a somewhat similar site, with an attached guest suite (in lieu of the studio and farm buildings). I only have a schematic layout so far, but am quite pleased with it and how inherently flexible the layout of T1 is for simplification and possibilities. Very different programs, but I'd like to think closer to what Wright belied to Martin as "a cottage up country for mother"!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Wright Chat Forum Index -> Click Here for General Discussion Posts All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 2 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP