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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2589
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never heard of this house before.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17339
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've added a driveway view of the house, to the images on the previous page.

And, for good measure, here's a photo of a driveway gate at Sander, and an 18-foot closet-door mural by Gene Masselink, on the west wall near the entry of the house:




photo © Dave Anderson




Last edited by SDR on Tue May 07, 2019 11:21 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2589
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with Zimmermanesque perfs.
One can't help but wonder just how much Wright really was involved.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17339
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is that ?

We had a discussion about this house, a couple of years ago. The house was being restored, I believe. We looked at the west end of the terrace/balcony.

S
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Matt2



Joined: 30 Dec 2018
Posts: 59

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did the site change for Sander? the drawing indicates a steep ravine but the photos look like a gentle slope. Sort of negates the intention of the design.
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2589
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 8:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Matt2 - kinda reminds me of the cantilever at Wingspread over undramatically flat ground.

Of course I know NOTHING about Sander, but the black gate strikes me as something Wright would not have done, first the color and second - overall just too heavy.

Then there is the surprising hipped roof over the carport. Then the Zimmerman perfs. It all seems a big mash up, striving for creativity, only achieving eclecticism.

I'll go look for the Sander thread and review it.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you can find it; I couldn't, using Google . . .

Yes, there is that quality of "big ado about nothing" to the cantilever. I wish we could see it as built, without the perimeter glazing.

Here are a couple of further illustrations. The section reveals that the house straddles---and hides---a huge boulder or rock formation.

The gate might be called "Darth." Pfeiffer credits Wright with the mural; Storrer gives it to Masselink.













Storrer---a photo caption explains the glazing:




Taschen:




© 1986 A.D.A EDITA Tokyo Co., © 2009 by TASCHEN GmbH and by the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation

© 1993 by William Allin Storrer
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2589
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh! - the whole thing has a hipped roof.
I didn't realize that.
I thought the balcony side was like Sturges and then somebody threw
a hipped roof over the carport.

These drawings change things for me.
Thanks for posting them, look forward to studying -
Couldn't find the Sander thread.
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9049

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Alien" is a bit extreme. It is an overblown version of a scheme that seems much more comfortable at the Sturges scale than Sander, but the kinship remained obvious even upon construction.
As I have pointed out before, it is easier to take a large structure down a notch, such as Beth Shalom did to the Cathedral for a Million People, than to take a modest-sized building and amp it up.
The hemicycles, for instance, at the scale of Jacobs II are more successful than Rayward-Shepherd, even as originally built without all the add-ons.
Sander is not a bad design, but just a bit hefty compared to Sturges.
The hipped roof and concomitant plastered ceilings are unfortunate.

I believe the balcony was enclosed after construction, and the master bedroom was expanded to include the balcony as a workspace for Mrs. Sander, who was a writer, I believe.
Aesthetically, it doesn't work from the exterior, but the interior is not bad.
If Sturges had not been built, Sander would probably not be criticized harshly, but by comparison it fails.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17339
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may have missed the last post, wherein I find a caption to Storrer's photo (shown previously) in which he mentions that the glazing as "storm windows"---so, presumably, installed seasonally.

Would you say that the newly-revealed Swan version of Sturges (see p 7) is a more successful expansion of the earlier design than is Sander ?
It, unlike Sander, does not try to become a new animal, opting instead to retain virtually all of the fabric devised for the Sturges prototype.

Does Swan satisfy (aesthetically) more than Sander---or is the reverse the case, do you think ?

S
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9049

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR, I haven't scrutinized the Swan plans adequately, but at a glance, it would seem that it is a better scheme than Sander. But Sturges got it right in the first place, so Swan seems to be unnecessary.

Swan would have benefitted by placing that third bedroom where the Sturges' expansion was to have been located. Where Sturges' upper reaches are slightly battered and provides for a roof terrace,
Swan is vertical and without a terrace. That, too, makes Sturges superior to Swan.

Overall, I think Swan looks like an apprentice-edited Sturges, and the changes don't help.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right. The revised structural strategy at the cantilever is interesting; it seems to benefit only the center third of the balcony---and then the symmetry is thrown off by the extra section(s) to the left, where there is a flat soffit indicated. Messy . . .

S
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 17339
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Wed May 08, 2019 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had hoped this thread wouldn't become a study of one or another of the house projects seen at the auction site---but that was perhaps a futile hope.

Looking for a photo of the Sander balcony without storm sash in place, I find instead a view of the gate that's at odds with what's seen in Dave Anderson's undated photo:

http://www.dsoderblog.com/springbough/

S
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2589
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, the Soderburg shot of the gate is more attractive.
Still the all black surprises me, but ok.

The vertical mortar joints in the brick are a distraction
The plaster ceiling is less than what one would have hoped for.

Still, not the mash up then what I previously thought.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
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Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu May 09, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So---which other projects on the list (p 5) caught readers' attention . . . ?

Still unknown is how long these listings will be up on HA's site.

S
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