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Taliesin (North) plans compared
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16121
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:08 pm    Post subject: Taliesin (North) plans compared Reply with quote



April 1911



.....................

June 1911.........................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................September 1911 plumbing plan



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Publication plan of Taliesin I, c. 1941.....................................................................................................................................................Wright, "Original Taliesin, 1912" (unpublished)



.....................

Taliesin II.................................................................................................................................................................................Taliesin III


Last edited by SDR on Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16121
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I became interested in Mr Wright's private quarters, which led to the collection of plans here. All but the last two are found
together, in "Wright Studies Volume One: Taliesin 1911-1914" (Narcisio G Menocal, Ed, © 1992 by the Board of Trustees,
Southern Illinois University). Neither Monograph 4 nor Taschen I publishes a plan of Taliesin II; the one above appears in
W A Storrer, "FLW Companion" (© 1993), p 184. The Taliesin III plan is widely published; I found this one in Taschen II.



One interior photo of a bedroom in Taliesin I bedroom appears in "Wright Studies" (p 107):





A section through Mr Wright's bedroom is found (also from "Wright Studies," p 117) in a drawing published in Western Architect in 1913:






The progressive rearrangements of connectivity between Mrs Wright's and Mr Wright's bedrooms will reward study -- or at least raise certain questions.

But there are a great many other things to be seen. Pairs of drawings are shown at roughly identical scales. We want to remember that Taliesin researcher
SpringGreen (Keiran Murphy) cautions us not to take any Talisein plan drawing made during Wright's lifetime to be 100% reliable; "They're not completely
fictitious & some are more-or-less accurate, but some show things that never existed. They're ideas he had more than realities."

SDR
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16121
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A



B




C
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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 902
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I too think this is an interesting line of inquiry -- lots of questions....

I like the pair of 1937 photos and the way the bedroom is configured. In the applicable floor plan that you've offered, however, the location of the bed in the photos seems incompatible with the floor plan.

I think the extant bathroom location is consistent with the floor plan, so the bed location would need to miss the bathroom door if it were to be a permanent arrangement. In that case, part of the bed would be visible from the living room down the long visual axis. Since there is no bedroom door, that would be a particularly unprivate arrangement.

I wonder if the photographer temporarily moved the bed across the room toward the east in order to compose a more interesting photo, showing a fragment of the bed in the foreground of each image to indicate that it is indeed a bedroom, rather than showing an empty expanse of floor.



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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 902
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a doctored up floor plan of the 1937-ish floor plan showing the furniture arranged in a way that would be consistent with the photographs, approximating locations of the camera.

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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
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Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm curious what was going on in the exterior covered area. Perhaps, an outdoor desk for lovely days, or a dining table for one?

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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 902
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Generally, FLW seemed to treat bathrooms rather perfunctorily. He seemed to make them dinky and chuck the fixtures in there with no particularly consistent arrangement. In the floor plans above, it seems like he had them arranged every which way, like he couldn't make up his mind, or it didn't matter much:

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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16121
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks -- I was hoping someone would help me out. You've taken care of photos A and C; can you place photo B ? Taschen II (p 151) gives us only "Photographer unknown/bedroom" . . .

I guess this is Mr Wright's bedroom -- though no stone wall at the head of the bed is shown in any plan I've seen.

A bathroom is strictly a utility to Mr Wright, it seems; he would perhaps be appalled at the sybaritic luxury now taken for normal, in the baths of today ?

I was intrigued by the rearrangements, right from the start, of the access to the bath(s), and between bedrooms, in that part of the house. Over the course
of the period represented by the seven plans, at least three mistresses-of-the-house were accommodated by the bedroom suite -- I guess. And they may
each have had different preferences. Access to the corner room, which in the initial plan is a covered porch/balcony, and later the smallest chamber of
the suite (disappearing altogether in Taliesin II), changed once between June and September of 1911, and again between the drawn and the actual
plans of Taliesin I before 1914 (and which of the two is correct, the published or the unpublished plan ?).
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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 902
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S
I think the bedroom photo you've marked as "B" is what is now called the Guest Room.


I can't explain, however, why in the photo we're seeing daylight thru an opening in the right corner of the room. The floor plan indicates a solid corner.

Here's a similar floor plan, presumably drawn later (?) -- this one has the room numbering system referred to by SpringGreen so perhaps it's from the same iteration of floor plans that identified the Masselink bedroom as 45.




FYI, Here's that same floor plan's iteration of FLW's bedroom. It looks to be the current configuration we now find. It can be hard to read because of the pattern drawn where stone flooring occurs.

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Rood



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1000
Location: Goodyear, AZ 85338

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="JChoate"]S
I think the bedroom photo you've marked as "B" is what is now called the Guest Room.


I can't explain, however, why in the photo we're seeing daylight thru an opening in the right corner of the room. The floor plan indicates a solid corner.

The photo of the (now) guest room with daylight showing through a door near the right corner ... is from the plan listed as being of Taliesin II.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16121
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote




Hmm. Was the lower stone wall, center of photo, removed -- or added -- at some point ?

Somewhere I saw sections through the Taliesin residence, showing the ceiling profiles in poché -- didn't I ?

Look at that section through Mr Wright's quarters, above, drawn for the Feb 1913 Western Architect issue: the span between light decks reads
approx 2" wide on my 22" screen. From ridge, left to the light deck = c. 1". From the ridge, right to the light deck = c. 1 1/4". What's up with that ?
Careless drafting, or different roof pitches ?


SDR
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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 902
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rood,
Oh yes, you're right. That ceiling trim treatment is clearly Taliesin II-ish and the closet doors are visible along the west wall.

A confusing thing -- the Taliesin II plan shows a Guest Room with multiple windows along the wall between the bed location and the fireplace, which doesn't match the single window's worth of daylight we see in the T2 photo.



In this photo from 1937 in that corner there's a single door with a glazed panel high up, which matches the other older photo. Neither floor plan shows this, and nowadays there's no door there at all. By, 1937 the wall above it and the ceiling are different with that new T3 way of vaulting ceilings.


Getty Images
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 16121
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To clarify, James, can you arrow a plan with that shot ?

Still wondering why the Tal II plan shows so much glass between the guest room and the dining area . . . which isn't seen in the photo.

SDR
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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 902
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

S
I'll use this more recent floor plan to show the angle. The door in the corner doesn't match the floor plan but the fireplace is consistent -- in the photo it's covered up some by the word "Getty".
You can see where the floor finish changes to stone on both photo and plan.

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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 902
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's something I don't get.
When I look at the Guest room wall in question in the photos at which we've been looking (theoretically Tal II and Tal III), I don't see a stone wall or a masonry mass in the earlier Taliesin II plan.
Also, I wouldn't have expected such a wall to be perfectly unscathed after the fire. But, when I compare the older and later photos the stonework appears identical, showing the stone wall is the same.
We can't reconcile the floor plans. Would the stonework remain identical and unmarred following the 2nd fire?

Are we to conclude that contrary to the floor plan, in reality a stone wall mass was built in that location and it survived the fire unscathed?





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