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Auldbrass Plantation 2017 tours
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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 701
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan !!! -- Three speeding tickets? Sounds like you were born with a "need for speed".
You've never been in these here parts of the Deep South before, but you should know that we have a serious crop of law enforcement talent.
You'd best go light on that accelerator or else you might find yo'self " in a heap o' trouble, boy!"

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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14297
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bring back the Donghia thread . . .

S
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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 701
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stan,
So while you are slowly and legally wending your way through the Southland, you might have opportunities for a couple of drive-bys.
According to your stated itinerary, one night's stay will be in Anderson, SC., meaning that 30 miles before Anderson you will have passed thru Greenville, SC where the Austin House ("Broad Margin") is located. I think it's veiled by deciduous trees, but by November perhaps leaves will have fallen and offer a view.
Then, about 60 miles east of Huntsville is Chattanooga where the Shavin House is located. It's drive-by-able regardless of foliage.
The challenging thing about driving east/west on your first arc is that you are cutting across the grain of the Appalachian mountain chain. Finding the right highways can be tough.

Also, Okatie is just a cluster of motels and fast food joints at the freeway exit. If you can swing it, I'd recommend lodging about 20 miles from Auldbrass in the old town of Beaufort, SC. It's a nice old spot (movies shot in Beaufort: The Great Santini; The Big Chill; The Prince of Tides).

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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What does Donald Spoto know? Anne Baxter's performance in "I Confess" is about the only reason to see the movie. She was terrific. Hitchcock wanted Olivia De Havilland, but Livvy wisely demurred; hardly her type of character that long before "Hush ... Hush, Sweet Charlotte." And to be fair, Montgomery Clift was also very good. Clift was what Brando and Dean pretended to be.
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JChoate



Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 701
Location: Atlanta

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say, I'm liking the crazy quilt we're sewing here.
This thread plays second fiddle to none in terms of juggling multiple tangents and colorful characters. Let's see:
Anne Baxter
Anne Bancroft
Patty Duke
Helen Keller
Alfred Hitchcock
Montgomery Clift
Aretha Franklin
Jerry Wexler
Spooner Oldham
Francois Truffaut
Beach Boys
Dusty Springfield
Joni Mitchell
Rod Stewart
Raymond Burr
Zsa Zsa Gabor
Buford T. Justice
Sherriff J. W. Pepper
Roscoe P. Coltrane
Boss Hogg
Barney Fife
Olivia De Havilland
Marlon Brando
James Dean

oh yes, and Frank Lloyd Wright

All the while, Stan's just trying to find his way to Yemassee...


Last edited by JChoate on Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aretha! What a voice. She sang at the Kennedy Center Honors for Carol King, and her performance was reported on and repeated by the network news shows. What other performer would get that kind of notice? Her performance of "Nessun Dorma" at the Grammy Awards was spectacular.

In the Pantheon of popular singers, I place Aretha second only to Ethel Waters, mostly because Ethel had a broader stylistic range (than anyone!). She sang blues, jazz, torch, ballad, novelty, she could sing a hymn that would bring Madalyn Murray O'Hair to her knees in an attitude of prayer, and yet also sang some of the filthiest songs ever recorded, like "Organ Grinder Blues." Also, Ethel kept on singing for decades after her voice went south. She didn't need it to sell a song. Aretha's voice is still brilliant at 75.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14297
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ethel Waters aside for the moment, what the heck was Aretha doing singing Puccini ? Doesn't the rendering of a music genre involve study and experience in that genre ? I don't truck with operatic divas singing popular music, either; the instrument isn't the only thing we hear in vocal performance !

All right; I'll find the Franklin tape and judge for myself; I don't expect to be satisfied. Call me an elitist, but the public can be sold anything on the basis of "she's famous so it must be good" . . .

SDR
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR, Luciano Pavarotti was scheduled to sing "Nessun Dorma," but for some reason backed out, so at the last minute, Aretha stepped in and did it unlike Pavarotti, Domingo, or anyone else who has ever sung it. It was wonderful and unique. She added a slight "swing."
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14297
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He had a sore throat, according to what I read. Sorry, it doesn't work for me. A tenor aria ? An aging voice, a singer (way) out of her territory ? What could one expect ? The rubes, bless them, went for it anyway. I love her -- but not for this . . .

SDR
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5587
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

She sang it beautifully and with reverence, without denying her own roots (as well as limitations). I found it incredibly moving.

https://youtu.be/k4fOuD8PyMQ
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SREcklund



Joined: 26 Feb 2013
Posts: 610
Location: Redondo Beach, CA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JChoate wrote:
Stan,
So while you are slowly and legally wending your way through the Southland, you might have opportunities for a couple of drive-bys.
According to your stated itinerary, one night's stay will be in Anderson, SC., meaning that 30 miles before Anderson you will have passed thru Greenville, SC where the Austin House ("Broad Margin") is located. I think it's veiled by deciduous trees, but by November perhaps leaves will have fallen and offer a view.
Then, about 60 miles east of Huntsville is Chattanooga where the Shavin House is located. It's drive-by-able regardless of foliage.
The challenging thing about driving east/west on your first arc is that you are cutting across the grain of the Appalachian mountain chain. Finding the right highways can be tough.

Also, Okatie is just a cluster of motels and fast food joints at the freeway exit. If you can swing it, I'd recommend lodging about 20 miles from Auldbrass in the old town of Beaufort, SC. It's a nice old spot (movies shot in Beaufort: The Great Santini; The Big Chill; The Prince of Tides).



Austin and Shavin are what define the east-west arc, and you're right - even the mapping apps provide little help. I initially was going to swing further southwest to see "Fountainhead", but Jackson MS to Okatie SC is just more drive than I'm interested in.

I'll be in Beaufort the Friday evening before the tour; Michael Miner is doing a presentation of his "Masterpieces" film there.

Okatie might be little more than a wide spot in the road, but with the dearth of hotel rooms in the region - and 1000 tour guests fighting for them - I was grateful to find a place to hang my hat.
_________________
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Humble student of the Master

"Youth is a circumstance you can't do anything about. The trick is to grow up without getting old." - Frank Lloyd Wright
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5587
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm again reminded of our recent discussion about the role of the critic. Informed opinion does matter in music, art, or architecture and is what critics do. But when it comes down to it, opinions vary wildly and are difficult, if not impossible to ignore.

"Ms. Franklin gets that. Whatever it is that she does with “Nessun dorma,” it’s real. (Check it out on YouTube if you dare.) Finding that realness is the part that’s difficult. The rest is, far too often, only notes."

Anne Midgette, classical music critic of the (failing ;- ) NY Times discussing Aretha filling in for Luciano Pavarotti.

Another critic could just as easily have taken the conservative position of "original intent", just like in law. "A woman singing an aria written for a man, and injecting unwelcome elements from another genre, and a popular, "low art" one at that... What would Puccini say?"

Full piece: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2007/05/06/arts/music/06midg.html

In African American music, it is encouraged, and even expected, to continuously make things new, and inject a personal rendition. Ray Charles takes on a warhorse in the early 70s: https://youtu.be/TRUjr8EVgBg "God done shed his grace on thee"


Last edited by peterm on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14297
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In African-American music, perhaps; in "traditional late-19th-century romantic Italian opera," as well ?

I'm no musician, only a long-time listener to some musics -- with inherent preferences and some partially-informed insights. In the case of Franklin's brief encounter with Puccini, I hear a struggle, heartfelt if (clearly) hastily-prepared and with a bit of hampered breath and resulting missed notes -- and some insecure pitch ? If her soulful presence and history make up for these technical deficits for some generous and inclusive listeners, who am I to question that ?

It remains, objectively, a musical mismatch, with the expected result, and it saddens puzzles me to find it enthusiastically and unreservedly embraced. Both composer and performer deserve better -- don't they ? Or am I being politically incorrect, denying Ms. Franklin ashot at "serious music" ?

SDR


Last edited by SDR on Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5587
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize that you're making the original intent argument, right?

It's not her presence, it's her voice. No insecure pitch, period, with Aretha. Many wild bent notes (glissandi), yes... and improvisations, essential in black music. An aging voice, yes, but one that is deep and experienced. She dared to make it her own, something forbidden in all of classical music. (It's the reason I gave it up for improvisational music...)

We often hear classical musicians "cross over" and play popular music, with typically sterile, kitschy results, but here we have a rare example of the tables being turned. A master gospel soul singer interpreting Puccini without a tinge of irony. It's like switched on Bach, or even Bach played on a piano; it just had to happen.

Stan- Enjoy your road trip!
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14297
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Switched-on Bach had to happen; there's always someone trying something novel. Could it even be more entertaining than the original music ? To some. It is true that piano performances of Bach keyboard work have revealed notes and passages sometimes less clear on the harpsichord. But in my lifetime the performances of Bach's music by ever-more-informed conductors and players, on a wider variety of quasi-original instruments, have revolutionized Baroque music, undoubtedly improving its performance relative to the composer's intent, and in terms of aural delight. Gone is Eugene Ormandy and forgotten (I hope) are the unfortunate Stokowski "transcriptions" -- for instance.

Bach in the hands of Harnoncourt or Herreweghe or Koopman puts the Swingle Singers and Walter or Wendy Carlos or even Jacques Loussier where they belong, in the "comic book section" of the classical aisle at the record store. Try both "styles" of Bach for a week or a month, then come back and tell me what you heard. And while you're at it, keep Lego versions of Wright buildings in mind, as a reference !

SDR
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