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Donald Trump, Donghia and interior design
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14291
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really couldn't make this stuff up . . . could you ?

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/4/1686914/-New-WHChief-of-Staff-Apparently-Clueless-About-What-the-Constitution-Says-About-the-President?detail=emaildkre

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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR, you are correct: "If you are seeking to preserve a certain worldview, it actually helps to gut science." And more broadly, "truth." Republicans subvert the truth of global warming, because it interferes with the bottom line. Democrats subvert everything that gets in the way of their addlepated worldview of Big Brother ruling all the "deplorables." (Now that Wells' "The Time Machine" is on everyone's to-read list, add Orwell's "Animal Farm" and "1984.") The sort of idiotic notions that fueled the popularity of the Communist Movement in the '30s have been rejiggered to a more palliative Bernie-Sanders-style Socialism: "Promise them everything, the moon, the sun, all the stars in heaven, for free! A chicken in every pot; a pink unicorn in every stable!" A Socialism, which inevitably, in order to survive, must become totalitarian. If you prefer a Putin clone running things to Trump, keep up the good work, Comrades. We will all be dead before the scales drop from the eyes of the believers, but it will happen.

A famous Jew from the 40s - cannot dig up his name (oh, the vicissitudes of age!) - said he feared Hitler less than Stalin. Hitler, he believed, was a charismatic (like Gurdjieff and Koresh), whose inevitable death would take down everything he had stood for, while Stalin represented a movement that would live beyond him, eventually infesting the entire world. Obviously, he was right on both counts. While the reconstituted Commie-Socialism sounds like a good thing, it is not. But that is what the left is offering for an alternative. Hate Trump as you will, he's certainly no resolution to the problems that face us all, but the alternatives from Jill Stein to Kim Jun Un are worse.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5582
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, Hitler's dead and his toxic ideas are long gone. No one at all is interested in any of that any more.

These folks know full well and openly brag that they are being protected and emboldened by Trump, Bannon, Miller, Sessions, etc.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/itsgoingdown.org/need-know-nazi-rally-charlottesville-va/amp/
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14291
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

An attorney friend alerted me to a recent advertising campaign issuing from the National Rifle Association:

http://www.businessinsider.com/national-rifle-association-ad-call-to-violence-2017-6

SDR
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Mod mom



Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick, Have you ever read the Green Party Platform (referring to your comment that Jill Stein would be worse)?

Demilitarization, peaceful and sustainable exploration of space, social justice, ecological sustainability, living wages, banking and insurance reform, universal healthcare, restoring estate tax, progressive taxation....

http://www.gp.org/platform

How are supporting these concepts worse than an administration that is set on decreasing taxes on those at the very top at the expense of everyone else? Do you really believe allowing corporations to regulate themselves is a good idea?
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mod, the Greens are full of positive-sounding promises, none of which they can keep. Stein may be well-intentioned, but her entire program is in that pink unicorn universe that will never come to be. We are gradually slipping to the left as it is, and that's not a good thing.
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, it's curious how easily the left connect Trump, the ultimate capitalist, to Hitler, leader of the "National SOCIALIST German Workers' Party," yet dismiss the idea that a toxic form of Socialism (of which there is no other kind) that putrefied every country it conquered, might take hold by way of the credulous, bewildered Bernie Sanders. Just because some politicians disagree with your political bigotries doesn't mean they are Nazis. That doesn't even qualify as a valid argument, just stark antagonism.

I voted for Trump. Does that make me a Nazi in your eyes? Do you think you might, just might, be going a bit overboard?
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize that questioning the veracity of the venerable New York Times is a sacrilege, but have you read the story about how Vice President Pence, along with Governor John Kasich and Senators Tom Cotton and Ben Sasse are plotting to get rid of Trump and take over the 2020 election? Based on some FACTS that you are so fond of, they have concluded a scenario without a shred of evidence. And you still think the Times is not as politically biased as Fox?
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5582
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick- I'm afraid you completely missed my point. You had previously said that Nazi ideology died with Hitler, while Stalin's ideas lived on (through the Left?). I'm saying that it is fact that Nazi stench is alive and well in the US, and that in their own words, they support and feel protected and emboldened by Trump.

Your words:
"...Hitler, he believed, was a charismatic (like Gurdjieff and Koresh), whose inevitable death would take down everything he had stood for, while Stalin represented a movement that would live beyond him, eventually infesting the entire world. Obviously, he was right on both counts."

In no way did I say that connected you or all Trump voters to the White Supremacist movement.

The NY Times article Roderick mentions seems reasonable enough to me, but judge for yourself:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/08/05/us/politics/2020-campaign-president-trump-cotton-sasse-pence.amp.html
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14291
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the last page of his 2017 "How the Hell Did This Happen ?" P J O'Rourke give us this:

"Perhaps in that flight of birds . . . the leader was not really a bold spirit trusting to its own initiative and hypnotizing the flock to follow it in its
deliberate gyrations. Perhaps the leader was the blindest, the most dependent of the swarm, pecked into taking wing before the others, and
then pressed and chased and driven by a thousand hissing cries and fierce glances whipping it on."

George Santayana, The Last Puritan


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Puritan

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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter, I am sure the Neo-Nazi movements would concur with your assessment of them as a natural extension of Hitler, but then anyone can call themselves whatever they want, whether or not it makes any sense. The American Nazi Party had little resemblance to Hitler's outfit. They may have been as toxic, but they were just a bunch of weekend warriors, and there is little left but a bunch of misfits and malcontents. There is no cogent ideology that might lead to the spread of Nazism as there is with Socialist Communism.

That you find the NY Times article reasonable speaks to the same non-discriminating adherence to the dictates of the left as might be found among the followers of Breitbart and their tendency to cleave to rightwing ideas. It would be necessary to insist that NYT owner Carlos Slim and publisher Arthur Sulzberger, Jr. (not to mention Jeff Bezos) are politically neutral, and all that is printed in their publication is absolutely unbiased. That's a big leap of faith.
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 14291
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lack of supportable fact would be enough to disqualify a news source, for me. So would misstatements of fact. But should the choice of what to cover, to report on, or the opinions rendered on the op-ed page, be given weight equal to either of the first two criteria ?

"Good news," and "bad news," is still news -- if accurately reported -- regardless of where it comes from, or how it makes us feel. We've had lots of fact-checking during the last several national political campaigns; maybe we could do (or find) reliable fact-checking on news sources like the Times or Fox News, to name two prominent vendors.

I'm willing to bet that there's more reliable information dispensed by our public media than by the likes of Fox or Breitbart. But only an impartial arbiter could be expected to verify that. (There seems little doubt that the current president, and his spokespersons, hold some kind of record for the most misstatements issuing from a White House on any given day, or week, or month, in my lifetime at least.)

This morning, for instance, NPR ran a long story about dairy farmers in Wisconsin, a multi-billion-dollar industry there, who are losing their essential staff by the dozens if not hundreds, as undocumented milkers and other workers pack up house and leave the state for the 37-hour drive back south of the border. One family was offered a house and other perks if they would stay; no sale. These people don't want trouble, and are willing to give up good jobs to avoid it. One man said "I've never seen an a American worker show up at this farm to take a milking job."

Would Fox want its listeners to know that Trump & Co are destroying rather than building American businesses ?

SDR
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 5582
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, can you imagine... what if? (The good stuff begins around 2:30)

https://youtu.be/swcJzacZkWU
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"OK, it's not the real Obama. Who could afford his speaking fee?"

That's the ex-president's future for life, raking in enough money to live the way an ex-president is supposed to live, like Bill Clinton, sinking into utter irrelevance, given the dearth of actual accomplishments of his 8 years in office. At a mere 56, assuming he might live as long as fellow exes, Jimmy Carter and George H. W. Bush, he has another 37 years and counting of boring audiences to sleep for millions of dollars. Perhaps he could hire Bill Maher as his opening act.
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 7483

PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDR, to fill space with musings is a waste that is irresponsible whenever it's sold as substantive journalism, as this piece in The Gray Lady has been. This is neither "good news" nor "bad news," but "fake news." If there is any substance to the allegation, it has not been evidenced to the level of publication by a respectable outlet.

The accuracy of the information dispensed by NPR is no more available to the public than that by Breitbart, Fox or the Times. The story of the illegal cow milkers is not equivalent in any way to the NYT story. Considering the comparative budgets, NPR vs mainstream media, it's more likely that it is NPR whose investigative prowess could be called into question.

If you want to know how business is doing, look at the stock market. Today, presently, it stands at 22,152, compared to ~18,300 on election day. That may not include the health of the cow industry directly, but the market + the lowest unemployment rate in years augers well for the economy as a whole.
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