Rosenbaum letter

To control SPAM, you must now be a registered user to post to this Message Board.

EFFECTIVE 14 Nov. 2012 PRIVATE MESSAGING HAS BEEN RE-ENABLED. IF YOU RECEIVE A SUSPICIOUS DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS AND PLEASE REPORT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

This is the Frank Lloyd Wright Building Conservancy's Message Board. Wright enthusiasts can post questions and comments, and other people visiting the site can respond.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, *-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time they see fit.
Tom
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

Two steel beams span the living room under the clerestory lines. I've got a set of Lambert's restoration drawings. I'll use my wife's cell and get some images. I'd prefer to post them here for convenience.
What's the best way to do that? SDR?
Gonna take some time tho, lot on my plate right now.

SDR
Posts: 18680
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Tom, use my e-mail address and send me what you have, when you have it.

Photo hints: Hold camera directly above image to avoid distortion; don't use flash but light the drawing well. In necessary use stick as monopod to stabilize camera.

With my 2 MP camera, when the focus is perfect and the Benday dots of the printed image are in focus, I see a little "sizzle" on the camera screen . . .

SDR
Last edited by SDR on Fri Mar 11, 2016 10:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

JChoate
Posts: 990
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:29 pm
Location: Atlanta
Contact:

Post by JChoate »

How interesting to see Lambert's drawings -- how did you come by those?

Do they shed light on exactly how the two cantilevered carport roofs are structured? I've always wondered exactly how they are configured.

Tom
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

About the same time of the Shavin visit, maybe the same road trip, a friend and myself took off to see Rosenbaum. This was before it's renovated opening. We did not know what to expect. We drove up and just happened to meet Mrs. Barbara Broach there who just happened to be the main force behind the fund raising for the restoration. She gave us a personal tour. I asked her how I could get a set of plans. She told me Lambert was the architect. I can't remember how I contacted Lambert but he sent me a full set never having met me. I can't even remember if I reimbursed him, though I think I did.
Anyway it's an immaculate set. Very clean computer drawings in two parts. First part, the house in it's existing condition. Second part, the restoration.
All framing and structure to be revealed!

Tom
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

I remember now, it came back to me. I emailed him. He sent me a set of plans. Just like that.

The original Rosenbaum carport steel is tied back to the masonry. The storage closet that faces the car is the cantilevers fulcrum. Two steel beams in that carport, can't remember what kind of section but think it's 'I'.
(One of the beams of Pope Leheigy carport ties back into masonry but the other is indeed tied down with steel tension rod into the slab.)

...the subject of steel framing in Wright structures is one of my favorites in the realm of Wright. I always feel like I'm looking under the hood when I get into this.
Last edited by Tom on Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

JChoate
Posts: 990
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:29 pm
Location: Atlanta
Contact:

Post by JChoate »

Tom,
That's a great story (and sounds like a great trip).
Don Lambert is a very nice man. He's a native Alabaman who graduated from Auburn and seems be very down to earth.
I think the rest of his practice involves very standard buildings, mostly new school and government buildings, I think.
I believe the Rosenbaum House restoration came to him because his is the architecture firm in that town.
I think he did a pretty good job, considering historic restoration is not their specialty.

I would think that your private tour, before the unveiling, must've been very thrilling.

Tom
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

Would rather talk about this all day than do what I've got to do.
Signing off for a bit.

JChoate
Posts: 990
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 4:29 pm
Location: Atlanta
Contact:

Post by JChoate »

I met Lambert at an event marking the 75th anniversary of the day the Rosenbaums moved in. That's when he told the tale of the bunk beds and carport structure (I wish I could remember the exact details).

Shortly afterwards, I discovered Stanley's letter and sent a copy to him. I just looked back at his email reply where he wrote: "I read it and his frustration was worse than I've been led to believe from family and other accounts."

Roderick Grant
Posts: 9802
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Post by Roderick Grant »

I met Mildred Rosenbaum several times in the early days of the Conservancy. She never said a word about any difficulties associated with the construction of the house. I think Mr. and Mrs. must have been very different personalities, half empty, half full types. She was a delight.

If John Geiger had been around at the time the house was in the drafting room, mistakes like the ones seemingly made would not have happened. I haven't read the story about the M. M. Smith house, but I would be surprised if it had any difficulties like those Rosenbaum listed. The quality of the end result of a commission depended heavily on which apprentices were involved.

According to Geiger, FLW did not like drudgery, he liked the "fun" aspects of designing, and left the drudgery to his apprentices. He drew a free-hand image of the specially molded block that trims the David Wright House, handed it to Geiger and told him to make a working drawing. Try though he might with compass, French curve and whatever other device he could find, Geiger could not accurately convert the rough sketch into something that could be made into a real thing, until he just made a clean version of the free-hand sketch, using eccentric curves. The manufacturer seemed not to have any problem converting it into the blocks.

Tom
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

I have only one gripe with the Rosenbaum restoration. In the Natural House there is a great exterior picture of the "Juliet" balcony off the Master bedroom. It's a small picture but it's pure Wright at Rosenbaum. The restoration locates all of the exterior mechanical equipment exactly at this point. The restoration site plan calls for shrubberies to be planted around it. Bad move. I'd have gone to Montgomery If I had to in order to get the money to remote locate that equipment. Oh well.

(In the mean time I've sent SDR a test run on pics of the drawings. We should be able to get some of that rolling here soon.)

SDR
Posts: 18680
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Bigger is better . . .

I guess this is the carport roof.


Image


Image

SDR
Posts: 18680
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

So, the 3x3 angles rest directly on the 8x8 beams. Nice and simple, and it all fits within the 12" thick roof plane.

In plan, the cantilevered portion of the roof is roughly 2 times the dimension of the secured portion.

The entrance door steps way down from the driveway, doesn't it. Mr Wright seems to thumb his nose at water hazards as well as at gravity ! Wanna bet there's no surface drain outside that door ?

SDR
Last edited by SDR on Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tom
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

Hey, they look pretty good. I'm sort of surprised.
Yes, this is the carport framing plan and section.
The beams that cantilever are 26 feet long.

The cantilevered beams tie back to another I-beam that is in line with the clerestory I-beam and so 90 degrees to the cantilevered beams themselves.
The masonry is stopped, the tie back I-beam is laid on top, and then the rest of the masonry (a considerable amount) is laid on top of the tie back beam providing the cantilevers counterweight.

SDR
Posts: 18680
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Aha. Thanks for clearing up how this thing was put together. Could the extra height added to the masonry stacks have had more than one purpose ?

Note that I modified my estimate of the cantilevered vs supported portion of the beams. Instead of the traditional 50%, it's 200% !

SDR

Tom
Posts: 2901
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

Very close - here are some numbers for you:
Overall length from tie-back to free end of carport is 28 Ft.
From masonry tie-back to fulcrum is 10 Ft.
The long steel itself is around 24.5 Ft.
Free total cantilever of 18 Ft.

Post Reply