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I believe it is a fair to criticize a critic.

 
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mike



Joined: 04 Feb 2006
Posts: 45
Location: st louis

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: I believe it is a fair to criticize a critic. Reply with quote

I believe it is a fair to criticize a critic.

(There is no doubt that he has contributed to the study of Wright
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9195

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The length of Bill's screed is enough for me to pass on it altogether. To criticize a critic with any effect, the critic would have to be open to dialogue, and that is just not the case with Bill. I cannot imagine anyone paying any attention to his "Manifesto."
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Ed Jarolin



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Wyoming

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I look forward to Mr.Storrer's new film," Fahrenheit FLlW".

Now I finally know what Wright meant by a Democratic architecture.

Seriously folks, I would hope our common appreciation for the works

of FLlW transends politics. In my opinion, a pox on both their houses.

The founders (those dead white guys) are surely dizzy from spinning

in their graves at what has become of their magnificent creation.
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Mobius



Joined: 24 Feb 2005
Posts: 149
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:


War and wars will be paid for by taxes on the rich, and only the rich. We will raise taxes on the rich to pay for the Iraq war. During the Second World War, taxes on the rich rose to 95%. We will reinstitute that to pay for the Iraq war.




Sorry - not if you want to get elected. That's impossible with a platform which speaks of taxing the rich at anything much more than they are being taxed now. He's a naive fool.



Disclaimer: I'm a libertarian type!



Quote:
We will reduce embassies in these countries to consulates. We may also eliminate all air traffic by national airlines of these countries into U S airports.




You're an idiot, and do not understand the commercial realities of this world. Stick to architecture.



Quote:
We will make our ports secure. Not only seaports, but airports and rail ports and road entry ways. We will not let WMD cross our borders under the guise of
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JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1456

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Screed, manifesto (or how about just his opinions?), whatever... I tell you, as a Progressive myself, I find no difficulty with much what he points out. The country has been brow beaten into condemning liberalsim as "bad". "The big lie" is in full force and it's a fact that the progressive cause has been ignored and abandoned by the Democrat (Republicrat) establishment for political expediencies. If you had a candidate espousing these views he/she (and I don't mean Hillary) would get support from many independents, progressive democrats and maybe even a few Liberterians but, of course, "zero" Republicans. That about says it all.



One thing is for sure: Frank would not have anything good to say about the people and policies attempting to transform our Jeffersonian republic into, as Kevin Philips points out, an American theocracy.
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DamiensGreve



Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 29

PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prof. Storrer's attitude has been mulled over before, and will again. On the good side, I suppose, he has "character". Well, and he's written the definitive book on FLW's executed work. I find his screeds an interesting reflection on what must be going on in the man's psyche. He has a Ph.D for goodness sake--that should be enough for anybody.



That said, while I find it interesting, I avoid his screeds when I can. I don't like coming across bile (yeah, right; I'm sure I'll look at the link as soon as I submit this: ).
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Palli Davis Holubar



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1036
Location: Wakeman, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]"Now I finally know what Wright meant by a Democratic architecture. Seriously folks, I would hope our common appreciation for the works of FLlW transends politics. In my opinion, a pox on both their houses."[quote]



Of course, architecture is part politics and an essential part of the American Democracy (the democracy Langston Hughes spoke of, "...let America be America again/ the land that never has been/ and yet must be...") is an essential part of FLW's work. Workers do what workers can do and his job was building buildings for the America whose founding documents meant far more than the signers' understood. No politics in Usonian houses, Macmansions on shifting sand shores, shotgun frame houses next to weak dikes, gated communities...get real. Forget parties and think of politics.



[quote]"...stick to architecture." {quote]



Architects, historians, artists, (who else) can't be active citizens?

Rather than rant at the gall of this architectural historian exclaiming his ideas about politics and beliefs about democracy, we all should be doing the same. We should all be speaking our beliefs, loudly and clearly. Perhaps our nation is in this mess because we let people double-talk us out of our beliefs. I, for one, wish I knew Mr. Storrer -or had known FLW- so we could converse about this unfinished structure called democracy.

I teach architecture as a Humanities-based discipline.



[quote] "Mr. Storrer is a very angry man..."
Quote:




Well, if you aren't angry too, you aren't paying attention!!!!

Apologies for any purists out there who think they are above the fray. Palli
[/code]
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 9195

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Palli, the point isn't that there is nothing to complain about -- there always is -- but that Bill, specifically, pays no attention to the opinions of anyone around him. He just fulminates endlessly. I know Bill (long distance), and I can assure you, if you were to get into a conversation, it would be one-sided. Even if the two of you agreed on ideas, he would find a way to contradict you. No matter what one's opinions are on politics, religion, architecture, humanities or anything else, without the willingness to discuss opposing points of view, one is just ruminating, and we all know how bright ruminants are.

JimM, "maifesto" is Bill's word, not mine.
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Palli Davis Holubar



Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 1036
Location: Wakeman, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick- Thanks for responding. (My response was kneejerk, time on my hands at lunch.) I have only read the handbooks, never heard W.A. Storrer speak at a conference or in conversation. His political side is new to me. But it's funny how much more patience and sympathy I have with other disheartened peoples' rants now, especially older people. (Don't think I even remember his bio. dates)



There was something to talk about in each section of his manifesto, however, grandiose it was framed; if not with him, with others and probably not on this website. From what you say, it's good his site is not interactive. Certainly, I read it wondering why he focuses on some ideas. But calling him an idiot... pleading that politics should be kept out of discussions about FLW work (can't we all just get along)...referring to politics as if two parties owned the territory...saying he should stick to his field... Now I've got to do some work while trying not to think about the poor souls in Guantanamo and ex-students scared to death in Iraq. Please accept my enduring self-doubt and naivete. Palli
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JimM



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 1456

PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick Grant wrote:


JimM, "maifesto" is Bill's word, not mine.




Attribution to you not intended, rgrant!
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jrdet10



Joined: 29 Dec 2005
Posts: 32
Location: Detroit MI USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: I'm a Friend of Bill S. Reply with quote

you may say i'm a dreamer

but i'm not the only one

i hope some day you'll join us

and the world will be Usonian.



sorry.
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