EFFECTIVE 14 Nov. 2012 PRIVATE MESSAGING HAS BEEN RE-ENABLED. IF YOU RECEIVE A SUSPICIOUS DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS AND PLEASE REPORT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION.
This is the Frank Lloyd Wright Building Conservancy's Message Board. Wright enthusiasts can post questions and comments, and other people visiting the site can respond.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, *-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time they see fit.
He most likely told her he designed it!
I take exception to that statement. An architect of his stature would never abdicate design responsibility for his own home. He may have let someone else detail it and deal with the local regulatory agencies and monitor construction. The author of the project can only be Nate Owings.JimM wrote:For what it's worth, I recall an article in Architectural Digest where Owings' wife talked about him designing it. For me, not a square inch of it indicates that possibility, especially the detailing. It's a stretch to think he would suddenly turn into a weekend organic architect.
He most likely told her he designed it!
http://books.google.com/books?id=qwk8j2 ... gs&f=false
I am not aware of any instance of Louis Sullivan crediting FLW for the design of his cottage at Ocean Springs, Mississippi. Perhaps someone could enlighten me. FLW may claimed design credit after Louis Sullivan passed away. However FLW was habitually prone to tell whoppers about his role on projects while he worked at Adler and Sullivan. He even took credit for projects that he did not work on, i.e. the Wainwright Building. FLW was a great architect, however he did not hesitate tell a whopper.Laurie Virr wrote:Mr Paul Harding:
I think you would have to agree that Louis Henri Sullivan was an architect of substance, yet when he desired to build a house for himself at Ocean Springs, Mississippi, he gave the problem to FLLW, and credited him with the design.....
The fact that you were not aware that Louis Sullivan had FLLW design his house, stables and servants quarters at Ocean Springs, Mississippi, in 1890, is not of itself definitive.
See 'Louis Sullivan', Hugh Morrison, published by W.W. Norton, 1935, and 'In the Nature of Materials', Henry Russell Hitchcock, published by Elek Books Limited, Fifth Printing, May 1958.
The work, most probably the first house FLLW was asked to design whilst in the employ of Adler and Sullivan, was unsupervised.
James Charnley had introduced Louis Henri Sullivan to that area of the U.S.A.
Why not? Frank Lloyd Wright made up lots of whoppers. Like his age for one. How about his education claims? How about credit for the design of the Wainright Building and the Auditorium Theater for others? Frank told Dwight Martin and his brother that he designed both of those buildings. FLW should get the Olympic Whopper Gold Medal for those two bald faced lies. Louis Sullivan was one of the greatest, if not the greatest architect of his period, doing very original and innovative design work. Louis Sullivan was a hard core design architect. He cared immensely about design. And we are supposed to believe that he did not care enough about his own house to design it? Frank may have worked on it, but to attribute the design to Frank Lloyd Wright is ludicrous.outside in wrote:I believe that Paul Sprague and many other scholars have claimed Wright's involvement in the Ocean Springs Cottages. Furthermore I doubt if Wright would have simply made up his contribution to those buildings.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that Frank Lloyd Wright was the greatest American Architect, if not in the world. But he was not at that level in early 20's. And he took a lot of great original ideas from Louis Sullivan and claimed them as his own. Some like to attribute God-like qualities to FLW and just take everything that he claimed or wrote as being the gospel truth. Regardless of what he claimed, he put his pants on one leg at a time and he would tell an occasional whopper if it suited his needs.
Bruce Goff, on being invited by FLLW to join him at Taliesin, replied with this well known, but diplomatic response:
â€˜Mr. Wright, you honor me ... therefore I feel I should tell you the real reason why I believe I should not accept your offer. I have known people who have worked with you in the Oak Park days and since, and they all seem to fall into two categories; one group thinks you have ruined their lives ... that you have stolen their ideas and that you are a devil. The other believes that you are a God who can do no wrong and that their lives are useless unless sacrificed for you. I don't want to think of you in either of these ways ... nor can I ever be a disciple. I need to be away from you far enough so that I can get the proper perspective.â€™
I fully ascribe to all those sentiments.
It is granted that FLLW did not design the Wainwright Building or the Auditorium Theater.
The Wainwright Building:
Somewhere in his writings Frank Lloyd Wright described how, whilst in the employ of Louis Henri Sullivan, the latter burst into his office one day and threw a drawing down on his table. It was the culmination of a long struggle to truly express the essential nature of the skyscraper, and the younger man claimed to have understood the implications of what was on the paper. He described the incident as Louis Henri Sullivanâ€™s greatest moment, and few of us with disagree with that assessment.
Whether he understood the full import of the design of the Wainwright Building is open to debate, but I doubt that he did.
The Auditorium Theater:
Adler and Sullivan received the commission for the Auditorium Building in 1886, some time before FLLW was in their employ. The construction was complete by 1890, and it is problematic as to whether or not the young man made little or any contribution to either the design, or the construction.
The evidence for my assertions is based on a number of factors. Among these are the fact that an examination of the residential work of Louis Henri Sullivan, particularly in relation to scale, suggests how uncomfortable he was with that aspect of design. Whereas his touch with the larger buildings is sublime, his residential details are awkward.
Being an extremely intelligent and sensitive individual. Louis Henri Sullivan had no difficulty in assessing the architectural ability of Frank Lloyd Wright, in particular his exquisite sense of residential scale, and this is manifest in the fact that the latter was given responsibility for all the commissions for houses accepted by the studio at that time.
Louis Henri Sullivan had seven years prior to 1890 during which he had set the course of modern Architecture, designed some landmark buildings, and established his reputation as the leading U.S. architect of the time. He had nothing to prove by designing his own house, especially when he was aware that there was a talent in his studio more gifted than he for the task. Altho small in stature, he was heroic in spirit, the artist-architect, and willing to give of himself to younger men of ability. From all I have read, he did not suffer fools gladly, but he was generous, and sufficiently confident in his ability and his cause, at that time in his life, for him to fear none of his fellow professionals. Furthermore, his experiences at M.I.T. and the Ecole des Beaux Arts, had taught him that architects are born, not made: that one could be a good designer at a young age, as he was, or a poor one after spending a working life in the profession. One either has what it takes, or else is bereft of it.
The proposition that Louis Henri Sullivan had Frank Lloyd Wright design his vacation house only appears ludicrous to those who are not prepared to accept that each architect has his own sense of scale. Deeper thinkers, those with sufficient sensitivity, acknowledge, and have no difficulty with that. Whilst designs have to go out under the aegis of the studio from which they are commissioned, only the apparently mean types, business men who find themselves in Architecture, such as Nathaniel Owings, are not prepared to furnish attribution to those responsible for the work. What is lost by so doing?
If Louis Henri Sullivan did care enough about the design of his vacation house, why did he not supervise it?
Many architects live in dwellings designed by others. Some purchase significant houses, and seek to make their reputation by occupying them. Louis Henri Sullivan was not such a one. He was much bigger than that.