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The campaign against degeneracy
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2899
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2020 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roderick Grant wrote:


There's a difference between "Conservative Christians" and "Evangelical Christians." For the most part, those who would consider themselves conservatives keep their mouth shut. Evangelicals SPREAD THE WORD!! Conservatives may shop in Leon Krier's store, but evangelicals drool over all those enormous sporting venues, like those Billy Graham used to fill.



... you nailed it. Driehaus is conservative Roman Catholic.
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the recipients of Dreihaus seem not too threatening. I don't see Benito smiling in the background. Seaside, FL is a respectable development. The Meadows Museum in Dallas is silly, but that's by Thomas H. Beeby, so what would you expect? I don't see any medal handed out for government buildings.
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peterm



Joined: 13 Mar 2008
Posts: 6182
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chicago Sun Times:

“ Make federal buildings ‘beautiful again?’ Trump declares war on modern architecture “


“ A state-mandated architectural style that retreats so resolutely into the past is an implicit negation of the best of American and world culture over the last few hundred years. It is also the stuff of authoritarian regimes, which always distrust the new and unexpected.

It doesn’t go unnoticed here that Mussolini, Franco and a particular failed German art student all pushed for a singular, classically inspired state architecture intended to project tradition, order and the superiority of the state.

NO ARCHITECTS NEED APPLY

We’re also troubled by Trump’s plan to create a “President’s Committee for the Re-Beautification of Federal Architecture” to establish, monitor and enforce this design policy. Design panels working for the committee would exclude “artists, architects, engineers, art or architecture critics, members of the building industry or any other members of the public that are affiliated with any interest group or organization” involved in designing or remodeling buildings. “

https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/2/5/21124236/architecture-making-federal-buildings-great-again-trump-executive-order-design
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2899
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw the new school of architecture at Notre Dame two summers ago when we were tracking down DeRhodes and Mossberg.
On the exterior the finished building does not measure up to the watercolor presentation drawings.
The studio in the photograph looks petty bad.


http://www.walshgroup.com/news/2019/walshfamilyhallthenewhomeofnotredamesschoolofarchitecture.html

https://architecture.nd.edu
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's ironic that most, if not all, of the architects who decry the proposed policy probably spent their university years on campuses smothered in styles of architecture from early Gothic to late Victorian. How many universities have more than a small percentage of their buildings in anything approaching modern architecture? What a difference it must be for the typical architecture student surrounded by historic styles, searching for inspiration, compared to the students at Taliesin, living in the two most glorious examples of Frank Lloyd Wright's work.
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The law quad at the University of Michigan is a favorite of mine.

https://aadl.org/hpf_0537_law_quad_aerial_001
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18665
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That may have been the case twenty years ago, Roderick, but I must have seen at least ten new university architecture buildings in the trade press, over the last fifteen years. None of them was anything other than up-to-date.

The Notre Dame building Tom posted would probably squeak by to acceptance under the proposed guidelines; it is well-mannered if passionless on the exterior, quirky to the point of PoMo on the inside ?

S
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Rood



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Goodyear, AZ 85338

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The NEW (2010) Federal Court-House in Tuscalloosa Alabama

https://www.architectmagazine.com/design/buildings/tuscaloosa-federal-building-and-courthouse_o
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 2899
Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always been a sucker for well proportioned Greek Revival buildings like this one in Tuscalloosa.
The idea, however, of the Government regulating architectural style makes my body feel ill.

"The Lost Meaning of Classical Architecture" by George Hersey (1989) is an interesting book.
If you have the patience for word study it's worth the time.
He leads off the book with an epigram from
Nietzsche's 'Human, All too Human':

"In general we no longer understand architecture.
An atmosphere of inexhaustible meaningfulness hung about
an ancient building like a magic veil.
Beauty entered the system only secondarily,
without impairing the basic feeling of uncanny sublimity,
of sanctification by magic or the god's nearness.
At most the beauty tempered the dread
- but this dread was the prerequisite everywhere."


Hersey's thesis is that classical architecture is derived from ritualistic sacrifices.
That ancient Greek temples are symbolic reconstructions of the dismembered bodies.
Thus the magic veil of dread is fear of the state. or something like that.
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Last edited by Tom on Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:18 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Rood



Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Posts: 1107
Location: Goodyear, AZ 85338

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:12 pm    Post subject: Ugly Buildings Reply with quote

Just Plain Ugly:

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/13/805256707/just-plain-ugly-proposed-executive-order-takes-aim-at-modern-architecture
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18665
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Federal Court-House in Tuscalloosa Alabama:

I wouldn't argue with it. It's a kind of stage set, I suppose, and so is anything built; the point of designing is to make it "look like something," as it's going to anyway, one way or another.

There's some nice things going on there, not least the spaces with natural top-lighting. Even the board-room's floor-length fenestration is a pleasant surprise.


I will admit to tearing up on one occasion as I found myself in front of a granite temple on downtown San Francisco: Bank of California, 1908. The obvious effort that went into making such a heart-warming tribute and evocation was---moving.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_California_Building_(San_Francisco)#/media/File:Bank_of_California_-_400_California_St_(with_annex).jpg (What's with locked, or broken, URLs ?)

S
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SDR



Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 18665
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.gsa.gov/real-estate/historic-preservation/historic-building-stewardship/architecture-and-government/federal-modernism

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DRN



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 3885
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would argue that a classical building may not necessarily have a classical style. A number of Louis Kahn's buildings are classical in their formal parti's with localized or overall symmetry, but are materially detailed in a manner that most would call "modern".

Kahn's Kimbell Art museum in Fort Worth TX, for example, feels classical to me.
https://www.google.com/search?q=kimbell+art+museum+louis+kahn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwirt5LHv9HnAhWST98KHUb9AYIQ_AUoAXoECBAQAw&biw=1648&bih=969

as does his Trenton JCC Bath House

https://www.google.com/search?q=louis+kahn+trenton+bath+house&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjmwqDfv9HnAhXKtlkKHUezB8MQ_AUoAXoECBIQAw&biw=1648&bih=969

and his National Assembly Building in Bangladesh

https://www.google.com/search?q=louis+kahn%27s+national+assembly+of+bangladesh&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjssKn-v9HnAhVNMt8KHRSwCIAQ_AUoAXoECBAQAw&biw=1648&bih=969


I don't believe the authors or proponents of this possible executive order would agree, but some architects might.

Was Kahn a modernist? A classicist?....an early Postmodernist? The Driehaus Prize jury saw Michael Graves and Leon Krier as in their camp, yet I don't see any of the 5 classical orders of architecture in their work. Their plans are ordered and often exhibit symmetry, but proportions are not by any stretch classical. Graves often said architects of the late 20th century lost the ability to design rooms. They focused on spaces...dynamic spaces, open spaces, transparent spaces, sheltering spaces, not rooms. Do we see rooms in the plans of Kahn, Krier, and Graves? Is that it?


Last edited by DRN on Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Roderick Grant



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Classical architecture of the 20th/21st centuries consists largely of clusters of spaces or rooms within, without distinction, wrapped in an archaic skin, like a bottle of booze in Christmas wrapping: Looking at the outside tends not to speak to what you will find inside. There may be a royal entrance, but beyond that, not much, just run-of-the-mill blank, malleable space.

The ultimate Classical building still standing, St. Peter's Basilica, is true to form inside and out, from Bramante's plan, to Michelangelo's dome, to Bernini's interior décor, to Pope Benedict's red leather pumps. What is Proto-Fascistic about the building is strictly its scale.

In 1864, Henrik Ibsen went to Rome to research his play "Emperor And Galilean." On a stroll through the city, he happened upon St. Peter's, and decided to go inside for a look. Upon experiencing the enormity of the place, he immediately set aside all he had been working on, including "Brand," conceived as an epic poem, rewriting it as a 5-act prose play. The Ice Church, a mountain lake, perpetually in a frozen state, covered over with an accumulation of snow spanning the mountaintops, with a vast vaulted space between, and which ultimately collapses down upon the village below, was based on the basilica. So this concept of intimidating by dint of vastness was not new, even before Valois.
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Tom



Joined: 30 Jan 2011
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Location: Black Mountain, NC

PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A friend just sent me this.
Have not listened myself.
A positive thing: architecture is moving into public discussion:

https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510317/its-been-a-minute-with-sam-sanders

Would lilke to know what the conversations were between
the Driehaus group and his lawyers about all this.
They had to have "gamed" this out.
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Last edited by Tom on Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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