structural stone walls

[jmixon]

Is this a possible thingg? I mean people built stone houses for ages, but is it up to code or today's standards? Does anyone have building plans on the walls at Kentuck Knob?

[SDR]

It is usually possible to gauge the thickness of stone veneer -- anywhere from 1" up -- by looking at outside corners. The "quoins" -- in this discussion, the ends of the individual blocks -- reflect the thickness of the stone used. The quoins would occur no more frequently than every other course of stone, with quoins appearing alternately at the left and right sides of the corner. Solid stone walls also have quoins, of course -- but it's unusual to see a structural stone wall less than 8 or 10 inches thick. Photos illustrate some examples:



Solid stonework at Taliesin . . .



and at Fallingwater; inconsistent thickness of quoins suggests solid construction.


photo: Michael Shuck
The ground-floor masonry at the Alvin Miller residence suggests solid construction, but the mass above -- added later ? --
clearly shows a consistent thickness of veneer at every second course, suggesting it was laid over block or poured concrete.



Stonework at the Neils house suggests veneer by its surface appearance, and the decorative quoining at the corner (center of photo) seems
to support that view because of the fairly consistent non-structural thickness of the material.



Installation of stone veneer; the thickness of the stone is visible at the corner, where each successive course is lapped right or left.



The same evidence is available to the eye at far left in this example of cast-stone veneer.


Structural masonry walls today would usually be built of a poured concrete or CMU wall faced with stone. Only the dimension of the quoins would give away the thickness of the stone that was used.

SDR

[jmixon]

Thanks, SDR. But stone structural walls ARE feasible?

[SDR]

As much as ever, I would think. But hardly the most economical thing. Clients do sometimes erect their own masonry; we were recently reminded that Virginia Lovness laid the stone for their little house, and very nicely too. A bit hard to imagine, frankly . . . making walls isn't like stacking Legos . . .

SDR

[egads]

Stone walls probably cannot be built to California earthquake codes though.

[jmixon]

bad economically because of the price of stone? or the labor?

[lang]

jmixon, Nowadays structural stone walls are simply too inefficient, and they cause problems. Stone is a really poor insulator, so a structural stone wall has to be insulated somehow, either by making a "double" wall of stone and insulting the space between, or by finishing the interior in a different material, such as wood paneling or gypsum board. Stone veneer walls go up quicker and easier than structural stone. Thats why almost all residential stonework is a veneer. You could probably create a structural stone support pier, but I have no idea if that would be pass code. Langdon

P.S. best of luck on your project!

[Roderick Grant]

Neils may well be veneer, considering how thin some of the walls are, even though the walls are stone inside and out.

Anthony, Gillin, Shavin and Kinney Houses, Sol Friedman, to name a few late designs, appear to be solid stone.

[jmixon]

jmixon, Nowadays structural stone walls are simply too inefficient, and they cause problems. Stone is a really poor insulator, so a structural stone wall has to be insulated somehow, either by making a "double" wall of stone and insulting the space between, or by finishing the interior in a different material, such as wood paneling or gypsum board. Stone veneer walls go up quicker and easier than structural stone. Thats why almost all residential stonework is a veneer. You could probably create a structural stone support pier, but I have no idea if that would be pass code. Langdon

P.S. best of luck on your project!

This stone work would be for a cold shed/garage so the insulation wouldn't be an issue for me. I'm just looking at alternatives to CMU.

[Rood]

Is this a possible thing? Does anyone have building plans on the walls at Kentuck Knob?

Plans and construction photos of Kentuck Knob are found in Bernardine Hagans book: Kentuck Knob: Frank Lloyd Wright's House for I.N. and Bernardine Hagan, c. 2005 The structural walls are of reinforced concrete, and the stone walls are largely veneer. Only when the walls are both inside and outside a room are they double width ... separated by a layer of insulation.

[SDR]

Hagan exterior veneer -- perhaps averaging 6-8" ? Nice . . .

http://www.cambridge2000.com/gallery/ht ... 8978e.html

SDR

[jmixon]

Is this a possible thing? Does anyone have building plans on the walls at Kentuck Knob?

Plans and construction photos of Kentuck Knob are found in Bernardine Hagans book: Kentuck Knob: Frank Lloyd Wright's House for I.N. and Bernardine Hagan, c. 2005 The structural walls are of reinforced concrete, and the stone walls are largely veneer. Only when the walls are both inside and outside a room are they double width ... separated by a layer of insulation.

Ah shucks. I was somehow hoping they were structural. Thanks< SDR

[SDR]

Why would that be preferable to you ?


SDR

[jmixon]

Why would that be preferable to you ?


SDR

Well I was hoping I could scrounge enough stone together over a year or two to stack up and make walls. If I'm going to put up block I'll just end up using the block as the structure and aesthetic.

[egads]

Why not desert masonry then? I take it that this is a shed in rural Maine?
One that is not going to be inspected? One of the drawbacks of actual stone walls in a cold climate is the frost cycle. It breaks them apart over time.