Archives to Avery Library/ Columbia University

[DRN]

Posting of the materials gleaned from the Archives may not be possible unless agreed upon by those in charge at Columbia University Libraries. The electronic files that I have seen issued from the Avery of FLW Archival material has had the following as the first page of the file:

©
Warning Regarding
Copyright Restrictions
The copyright law of the United States (Title 17, U.S. Code)
governs the making of photocopies or other reproductions of
copyrighted material; the person using this equipment is liable
for any infringement. For more information about copyright
law, the rights of copyright owners, and the right of fair use to
make limited copies for purposes such as teaching, research,
and study at Columbia University, visit the website of the
Copyright Advisory Office at http://copyright.columbia.edu

.

[Tom]

Wow.
I am perplexed becasue their website says they do not do in house remote archives searches.
They say you can come and take pictures or you can hire someone on their recommendation to do the in-person research for you.

GDorn seems to have managed a break through.
Although there was some other guy here who said Avery was sending him digital images,
but he would not share his info.

I do think for posting here on WrightChat they will require copyright information to be associated with each image.
Pretty sure they specify that on their info-web.

If this manages actually to happen for us ...
Well I don't know what, but some kind of party or wild rumpus would be in order.

[g.dorn]

receive this reply to my question about posting on the Wrightchat forum.

hank you for your message. The study images that I can share with you can only be used for private study purposes. Should you wish publish any of the images (including online), please reach back to us and we can provide details on our fees and procedures. Also, if you intend to publish or exhibit the 3D models you are working on, you will have to seek curatorial approval from the Curator of Avery Drawings & Archives.

The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives now reside in New York, but all copyright and intellectual property rights for the original materials were retained by the Foundation in Arizona and only they or their authorized representatives are able to grant permission.

The study images I will share with you are digital copies of the drawings we hold for each FLW projects. In some instances, there are drawings with measurements, but not for all projects.

Please do not hesitate to reach back out to us with any other questions you may have.

Best,

--
Mathieu Pomerleau

[g.dorn]

Ive received 2 emails with links to downloadable drawings and gotta say

Im rather confused by their attitude to sharing what they have - what are they worried about. Not sure now If I am allowed to say anything.

any way

Goetche-Winkler house - seen all drawings before- as those noted in that thread viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4222&start=135 resolution is better thus can zoom in and read the notes.

Pauson house - lots of plans - looks like air-conditioning ducting was incorporated or atleast studied to see if it could be.
entry at one stage had a flying bridge!

Lloyd Lewis utility building

Lloyd Lewis Guest house

community church - Kansas Don't know why I received that - didn't ask for it!


I think I'll comment separately in each thread

I am really please they are prepared to provide these drawings.

[g.dorn]

2nd email included
Pew house - mainly of the original design - as built design has same drawing already seen - no others - a bit disappointing

Sturges house - similar drawings seen before- but can be zoomed in - some studies of the floor framing and an additional section - kinda helpful

Schwartz house ( 2 rivers) - has framing plans - yes 3 x steel to carport, steel to river end of trellis - really helpful

[SDR]

Bravo. I'm all for invention, in any event, if realistic---it's surely a useful and entertaining exercise---but having an early drawing has to be worth everything short of notarized as-built records (with 1:1 X-ray imaging, where feasible) . . .!

S

[g.dorn]

You know it would be nice if the Foundation just outright gave permission for us to share any archive provided material on this Forum - as an statement somewhere.

[Roderick Grant]

I wonder if copyright laws have to be adjusted to account for Internet realities of access? Anything that is posted on this site can be posted on any other site in the ether. Copyright, I predict, will be very hard to ensure in the future.

With or without the cooperation of Avery, it would be worthwhile, if difficult and tedious, to scour the history of this site for all drawings we have already acquired to date, by whatever means, and transfer them to project-specific threads, perhaps titled with a numeric code that would help to dredge them up, perhaps in a Wiki-Wiki thing, as David C. suggested.

[g.dorn]

received this email from Avery

I have been notified that you posted five images from project 3904 Bernard Schwartz house (Two Rivers, Wisconsin) in a blog post on the Frank Lloyd Wright Building Conservancy's Wright Chat (link). Allow me to kindly remind you that I have explained you in my email from Wednesday, May 27th, that the study images I was sharing with you could only be used for private study purposes. I also mentioned that if you intended to publish them (even online), you should reach back to us so that we could provide details on our fees and procedures.

I fully understand how relevant these images are to support your argument and I wish we could make these images more easily accessible. I will confer with the Curator of Avery Drawings & Archives, Jennifer Gray, to see what can be done about this. In the meantime howerver, I would kindly ask you not to use these images in other blog post.

Best,

I wonder what this is all about - Ive asked that someone from the archives post on this thread some explanation

[Tom]

Maybe, in the meantime we should take them down -if it jeopardizes their willingness to share them at all.
I also think GDorn should not be represented as a single voice to Avery.
If an apologetic letter expressing our wishes needs to be written I'd be willing to sign. I'd hope others would be as well.
The neutral thing about posting on WrightChat is that no one is making money directly from these images
-although public access like this could possibly reduce their potential "customer base" I guess.

It does seem like a problem that Avery would be willing to labor to make these only privately available while not reducing their labor and making them publically available on a specialized website such as this one.

Wondering if they would make GDorn WrightChat's official Avery representative who could then distribute images to a group email for private viewing. Otherwise do they intend to respond to each of us individually?

[pmahoney]

Keep in mind, Wright Chat does not host these images , only links to them hosted elsewhere,

[Matt2]

Is G Dorn posting the plans he's listed online somewhere? I'd like to see them.

[g.dorn]

The images I have posted are only on the Bernard Schwartz house - with copyright citation

http://wrightchat.savewright.org/viewto ... 4&start=60

As the files provided are PDF's , Ive had to screenshot them to png format, and then hosted them on my Flickr account. Iv posted them to the forum to aid in my study of this usonian house, and to get others feedback on what I understand about its construction - in particular the unseens parts - ie framing system.
The only way someone else can see the images is via this Wrightchat thread - As far as I know!
( I do know its rather easy to copy an image address and post it anywhere and google search often picks up images posted on the Wrightchat forum)

As to being a representative :
I'd prefer someone local deal with the archives and Foundation - as I am on the other side of the planet with some 12 hr time difference - I just happen to be the one to initially ask for online access to the archives- and with everyone lockdown I suppose its just been an opportune moment.

[g.dorn]

Additionally just prior to receiving this email, I did receive a file of the Lloyd Lewis house drawings - most of which have previously been published.

Still I thoroughly recommend anyone request a drawings search of any of the FLW projects they have listed.

This list of available documents ( ie FLW buildings and projects) is here
https://findingaids.library.columbia.ed ... 1376/dsc/6

[Roderick Grant]

I suspect Avery will have a difficult time putting the lid back on this Pandora's box. The rules have to change, and the profit motive must change along with it.