Frank Lloyd Wright's Ashes

To control SPAM, you must now be a registered user to post to this Message Board.

EFFECTIVE 14 Nov. 2012 PRIVATE MESSAGING HAS BEEN RE-ENABLED. IF YOU RECEIVE A SUSPICIOUS DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS AND PLEASE REPORT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

This is the Frank Lloyd Wright Building Conservancy's Message Board. Wright enthusiasts can post questions and comments, and other people visiting the site can respond.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, *-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time they see fit.
DRN
Posts: 4044
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:02 am
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Post by DRN »

Per photos published in Arizona Highways magazine, at least one of the pots pierced the veil prior to 1956, and per Besinger's account it was prior to his departure in 1955. In that time period, it could be assumed Wright was calling the design shots in his home.
As to why he did this, has anyone found a published reference?

KevinW
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:41 pm

Post by KevinW »

I have stayed a few times at Io's apartment at the Sun Cottage. You would almost be led to believe that she might return some day just by looking in a few closets and drawers...many of her belongings were still there, personal items..it made me feel a bit uncomfortable, so I just kept everything in the suitcase.
My last stay there though, was very short. I brought my wife, her first time to T-West. I tried to explain to her how all hell breaks loose in the desert once the sun goes down.
Sure enough, as we were settling in for the night, critters made their way inside, as they do at T-West...we ended up staying in a hotel the rest of the visit..She was not amused by the furry critters scurrying along the soffits, and climbing the masonry walls.
KevinW

KevinW
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:41 pm

Post by KevinW »

Seems to me I remember some sort of story about that vessel, something about how one of his sons wanted it, or purchased it....that Wright didnt actually do the window cut out, someone else did??? Perhaps I'm remembering something else..anyone?
KevinW

Tom
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

From Idyllopus on Flickr:
From "The Seven Ages of Frank Lloyd Wright: The Creative Process".
Pg. 124
"In a glass window in the corridor by the Taliesin West living room a Sung vase partly projects, through a circular hole cut in the glass, to the exterior. The vase penetrates both worlds. It is a paradigm of Wright's insight into the relationship between inner and outer spaces. wright was always fascinated by the relationship between two worlds, between the interior and exterior worlds of architecture. He saw it as emblematic of man, who stands at the threshold between two worlds, the interior world of the psyche and the exterior physical world. He saw, like Marshall McLuhan, that the body is an extension of the mind, the house an extension of the body, the window an extension of the eye. To Wright glass was a membrane separating inner and outer space: the regulator and modifier of the flow of evergy, space and light, between inner and outer worlds. He saw that the window that lets light and space in was equally the opening that allowed space to flow out."

DRN
Posts: 4044
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:02 am
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Post by DRN »

My instinct is to flippantly post the oft repeated Wrightism, "Well there you are!", but after sitting through too many classes in which an instructor seems to over interpret or read further into a work than its creator may have intended, I'm led to wonder if the quote from " The Seven Ages of Frank Lloyd Wright: The Creative Process" attempts to analyze Wright and his motives in a way that may or may not represent his actual thinking in this situation.

Thoughts?

peterm
Posts: 6290
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

Post by peterm »

The reality probably lies somewhere in between the overblown philosophical justification from the writer who Tom referenced, and a wonderful example of Wright's stubborn pragmatism:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nein09/3986585152/

Steve Lamb
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:53 pm

Post by Steve Lamb »

In any case, the bronze urn has been replaced with a copy amd stored as is all the original asian art work once in T West. Neither Mr Wright nor Mrs. Wrights remains are there, or as far as I know have been. I have everytime I went to T West paid close attention to the Bronze. I was there prior to and after Mrs. Wright's death and creamation and no ashes were in the bronze.

And yes, Mrs. Wright would have had her wishes carried out by her group somehow had Iovanna signed or not, it just so happens that they got a double benefit out of getting Iovanna to do it.

Tom
Posts: 3217
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

When Wright first did this was there just one bronze or two? I'm wondering if the second bronze came later and if so when?

DRN
Posts: 4044
Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:02 am
Location: Cherry Hill, NJ

Post by DRN »

The best way to determine the history of the two windows with "potholes" would be to find as many dated photos (that is to say published at discernible date) of the room in which they are located, as possible and compare them. I've found that subtle changes were constantly made to most Taliesin and Taliesin West spaces, and that no two pictures are exactly alike. Another source might be to direct a question to BBP via the Archives.

One pot I know is on a short shelf at the north? end of the Garden room, next to the passage to the Wright's private quarters; the other pot seems to be on a much longer shelf against a longer window band which I think is on the east? side of the passage from the Garden room to the Wright's private quarters overlooking the courtyard/lanai, (ie. around the corner from the first "pothole").

I'm reminded of Besinger's (I think) account of Wright's reluctance to enclose Taliesin West with glass at Olgivanna's suggestion...he seemed to prefer clear openings that could be closed with canvas or wood panels when needed. Could the "potholes" in the glass have been a means (experimental or not) for him to trick the eye into believing that the glass he was so loathe to introduce was not actually there?

Another, though unlikely, possibility is this:

O: Fraank, I vant glaass vindows.
F: I'm not moving my Sung pot.
O: Fraaaank, I vant glaaaass.
F: I'm not moving my pot.
O: Fraaaaaank!
F: Ok, ok, you'll get your glass, but I'm not moving my pot......Curtis!
C: Mr. Wright, you want me to do...what?

SpringGreen
Posts: 539
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:00 am

DRN's imagined conversation between the Wrights

Post by SpringGreen »

Totally made me laugh.
"The building as architecture is born out of the heart of man, permanent consort to the ground, comrade to the trees, true reflection of man in the realm of his own spirit." FLLW, "Two Lectures in Architecture: in the Realm of Ideas".

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10571
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Post by Roderick Grant »

I'm inclined to go with the "Well, there you are," approach. I think FLW was not given to pondering deep philosophical ideas when it came to designing. Perhaps for his Sunday "sermons" he might fly a bit high, but in the studio, he was all business, completely intuitive.

On page 143 of "Selected Houses 3" both pots-in-a-hole can be seen in one photograph. I've always thought once was enough, and doubt highly that the second was there before FLW and his acolytes had left the scene, leaving Olga and her minions to do mischief. Olga's strength was not interior design. She never knew when to stop.

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10571
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Post by Roderick Grant »

Two photos to the left of the closeup of the pot that peterm posted above is a rather disturbing sculpture at T-West of an archer. Heloise is a fine sculptor (if overly sentimental in a Th. Kinkade sort of way), but there seems to be more than enough of her work scattered about the campus, and that one is definitely over the top. Follow the arrow; is there, at a distance, a stag in his sight?

Laurie Virr
Posts: 472
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 5:32 pm

Post by Laurie Virr »

'Olga's strength was not interior design. She never knew when to stop.'

Roderick Grant

More is the pity that she even began.

krietzerjak
Posts: 125
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:19 pm
Location: Fort Branch, IN

Post by krietzerjak »

We toured Taliesin North this Summer, and a lot of work was being done. Part of it, I remember, they had removed plaster that had covered a stone wall in (Frank's?) bedroom. Our tour guide said Mrs Wright didn't like all the stonework, so she had areas covered with plaster. There were remains of a carved stone face that was in the stone wall that had to be removed for the plaster. I guess it stuck out too far. I wondered then what other changes had been made since Wright's death.

I remember seeing pictures some time ago of a rose garden (or maybe "Mrs. Wright's garden"). I remember there was a circular gate in a high stone wall. I did not see this when we were there. I just wondered if this is something that has been changed since Wright's death?

Andy

SDR
Posts: 20196
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Wouldn't it have been great to learn that, before a travesty such as the plastering described above, a few of the most senior apprentices still around had put up sufficient resistance to prevent the act ? A workman's sit-down (or sick-out) strike, perhaps ?

I wonder where such an insurrection might have led ?

("Better them than me" -- as the saying goes !)

SDR

Post Reply