Frank Lloyd Wright's Ashes

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m.perrino
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Post by m.perrino »

SDR: The vessel that sits inside (around) the glass window cut out is a reproduction of the original vase. The original is in the archives. Your idea is an interesting one, since that vase looks into the dining cove and also out to the original 'green garden' that was a part of the Wright's private living space.

Michael

SDR
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Post by SDR »

Curtis Besinger describes the measuring and fitting of glass at the north side of the drafting room and the east side of the living room (Garden Room) in the winter of 1946-7. This was to be done with no stops and the minimum of visible "devices." The glass openings were measured with much care, the glass cut in Phoenix, and set by Bessinger and others. The vessel is shown in place in a Stoller photo taken afterward.

Stephen

Roderick Grant
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Post by Roderick Grant »

I've always thought that glass-cut-around-the-vase bit was contrived. It carries the inside/outside gambit too far by half.

SDR
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Post by SDR »

It has always seemed so to me, as well -- though I've not seen it in person. I would have done such a thing only if neither the glass line nor the vessel could be moved to a different plane -- which I assume is (for some mysterious reason) the case ?

Stephen

dkottum
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Post by dkottum »

Was the vase there before the glass was installed? If so, I think it would be much less contrived, but typical Wright.

hypnoraygun
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Post by hypnoraygun »

dkottum wrote:Was the vase there before the glass was installed? If so, I think it would be much less contrived, but typical Wright.
Image

SDR
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Post by SDR »

Nice to see that the piece of glass below the shelf has been helping to take the weight of the vessel, all these years. . .


SDR

Steve Lamb
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Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 4:53 pm

Post by Steve Lamb »

DavidC wrote:Wright's children with Catherine Tobin:


Frank Lloyd Wright Jr aka Lloyd Wright: Born 3/31/1890 in Oak Park, Illinois. Architect in Los Angeles, California. Died 5/31/1978 in Santa Monica, California. Married once.

John Lloyd Wright: Born 12/12/1892 in Oak Park, Illinois. Inventor of Lincoln Logs. He died on 12/20/1972 in Del Mar, San Diego, California. Married three times.

Catherine Dorothy Wright: Born 1/12/1894 in Oak Park, Illinois. Died 1/27/1979. Married once. One of her children was actress Anne Baxter.

David Samuel Wright: Born 9/26/1895 in Oak Park, Illinois. A businessman. Died 11/1/1997. Married three times.

Frances Lloyd Wright: Born 9/3/1898 in Oak Park, Illinois. Died 2/11/1959. Married twice.

Robert Llewellyn Wright: Born 11/5/1903 in Oak Park, Illinois. Lawyer. Died 2/22/1986. Married once.


David
Lloyd was married twice.

Steve Lamb
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Post by Steve Lamb »

Laurie Virr wrote:Palli Davis Holubar here makes her usual perceptive contribution.

In her heart of hearts Olgivanna knew that she was never more than second best in the affections of Frank Lloyd Wright. Mamah Borthwick Cheney was the love of his life.

The architect incorporated some of the stones blackened by the fire at Taliesin in Wisconsin into the new structure, and these would have been a constant reminder to Olgivanna of her position in the scheme of things. Surely this was not the least of the reasons she embraced the construction of Taliesin West with such alacrity?

Exhuming the remains of Frank Lloyd Wright from the site he had chosen for his grave, next that of Mamah Borthwick Cheney, and disposing of them in the manner Olgivanna requested, was the final act of revenge against the woman whose shadow had hung over her for more than 60 years. That her daughter and confidants acquiesced to this act, which was both petty and monstrous, says nothing for their characters.

Was the exhumation an officially authorized act? If not, did not such act constitute a Federal offense, and why were charges never laid?
Poor Iovanna! She resisted this, was pressured into it by her Mothers confidants and reviled by her family. I believe this is what finally drove her over the edge. She still speaks of it regularly and her belief that the whole world reviles her for carrying out her Mothers wishes. After they helped driver Iovanna to madness and a wedge between her, her family and the Loyalists to Mr. Wright they moved to exile her. Last I spoke with her she was not even allowed to visit Taliesin or the Suntrap,she claims it was always promised to her to be her home as long as she lived. Iovanna was totally betrayed by everyone, except I understand Indira.

Tom
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Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

I searched FLICKR for shots of the vase cut into glass and found several. I am a little confused because it seems that there is more than one instance where this happens in the complex. Am I wrong?

Tom
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Post by Tom »

Last edited by Tom on Tue Nov 27, 2012 7:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tom
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Post by Tom »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/nichitecture/5656423403/


Is the man in this shot standing in front of another pot cut into glass?

In that case are we talking about his and her pots?

Tom
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Post by Tom »

http://www.flickr.com/photos/idyllopuspress/2408704864/

Well what da ya know. The ashes may not be there but I'd say SDR's surmise that this is the intended spot is probably accurate.

The inside/out move, in the context of burial is not so crazy, rather symbolic like the words in the Moody Blues ode to Timothy Leary: "Timothy Leary's dead. Oh, no, no. He's outside, looking in."

DRN
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Post by DRN »

I had not known that there was more than one "pothole" in the Taliesin West glass, but per the pictures, that seems to be the case. Both pots seem to be open, which is to say any contents placed within would be visible when one would look down into the pot. A quick looksie by m.perrino would easily answer that question.
Despite the intrigue of the notion of placing the remains of an architect who spent his life blurring the distinction of indoors and outdoors in a piece of pottery which both inside AND outside, I find it hard to believe cremains would be left in an open container on a low shelf in a space that is visited by thousands of tourists each year. The chance of a gum wrapper, a tissue, or some other bit of detritus becoming mingled with the contents is too great. If the cremains are in that space, I'd have to believe they are in a closed container, probably out of view and certainly out of reach.

Steve Lamb:
It would seem we Chatters have touched a nerve...few of us have ever met Iovanna and, for most of us, all that we know of her is what has been written about her by various, at times conflicting, sources. From what we have read, it can be surmised that she has led a troubled life, that at times for reasons we may not completely understand was out of her control. I don't believe any of the postings in these threads have necessarily passed judgement on Iovanna....it would seem that though Olgivanna's wishes were contrary to many, there were others that were determined to carry them out. Had Iovanna not signed the paper authorizing her father's exhumation, Olgivanna's "will" would most likely have been done in any case by other means. That the remains of FLLW are no longer in his family graveyard is because of Olgivanna, not Iovanna.

Tom
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Location: Black Mountain, NC

Post by Tom »

It would be representative of the two of them having pierced the veil.
The question for me, at least, at this point is what is the design history of this crossing, how did it evolve and who designed what we see now and when was that first in place? It's a riddle in any case. Too intentional not to mean something. I mean I agree with RG. It's gimmicky if we think that Wright did this just to make room for a vase. But if it was an effort to represent some kind of continuity through death than it takes on a different aspect.
Last edited by Tom on Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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