Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

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Tom
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by Tom »

GDorn - yes regarding structural use of fascia. In a typical Usonian every other joist over a window wall, that is every joist not supported by a mullion/post - is supported by the outboard fascia of the roof. Which means that the roof over windows in a Usonian house are built without headers. Perhaps I'm easily impressed but this detail murders me.
Last edited by Tom on Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

SDR
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by SDR »

Why would you not say that the "header" was the fascia board---or more correctly, the 2x4 behind the fascia---nearest the opening in question---that is, the most inboard one ?

S

Tom
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by Tom »

Because saying Usonians are built without headers is so much more cooler!
But "I take your point".
Saying Wright puts the headers outside of the house at the edge of the roof might be even more cooler! ... definitely more accurate.

By the way - just came back from the G/W Owner site on Flickr.
Where the kitchen clerestory meets the ceiling on the exterior is different than on the interior - and same for the entry window wall.
The "header" between mullions is deeper on the inside than on the outside.
I think that must mean a change in ceiling height at the transition from inside to outside.
In other words the detail here does not follow the large section you posted of the typical Jacobs wall/roof detail.
At G/W the exterior soffit and the interior ceiling don't seem to be in the same plane.

... also never realized this house does have a basement. Owners call it a "Michigan Cellar"

SDR
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by SDR »

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Tom
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by Tom »

Tom wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:32 pm
(That's a 6" difference from the interior ceiling, which is not possible unless the lower 2X4 is eliminated from the interior portion of the joist.
This might be the case. Interior shots of the kitchen show a 4" to 6" wood cased header above the kitchen clerestory glass. That header is not visible to me in exterior shots and on the elevation drawing the top of the glass of that clerestory seems to butt directly into the bottom of the eave with no cased header.
However, the sections in the book do not conform to that description. They show 3-laminated 2x4 joist throughout. Yet, these sections are altenative versions of what was built because they show the kitchen ceiling height the same height as the large central room, and they also show stairs going down to a basement. So they are not accurate to as built conditions.)

SDR
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by SDR »

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Some of the notes to plates in "Affordable Dreams." A serious student of the Goetsch-Winckler house should have this scholarly and inclusive book.
https://www.amazon.com/Affordable-Dream ... 1879147122

In the meantime I would be happy to provide, in order, the plates referred to in these notes.

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© 1991 by the Board of Trustees, Michigan State University

g.dorn
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by g.dorn »

plate 13 says alcove ceiling height 6'11" same as gallery ( entry)

6'11" = 83" = 2108mm at units 6 units makes each unit 1'1.76" = 13.83" = 351mm approx each.
G Dorn
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g.dorn
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by g.dorn »

If the entry to the basement is from the carport tool shed, is the basement then

under the kitchen,
under the carport slab,
or
under the alcove

the door handle appears to be on the right, thus steps going down towards the street, therefore fore I reckon

its under the carport!

well actually the owners photos confirm that thinking.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/14960965@N08/31281074811/

my scale is out, but you get the thinking?

Image
G Dorn
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Tom
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by Tom »

I was reading from plate 10 which calls those ceilings out at 7'-0"
I feel like I've gone down the Rabbit hole on G/W.
Never thought I'd understand it to this extent.

g.dorn
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by g.dorn »

In this photo
If you open it up and then zoom into the the junction of the brick fireplace mass corner and the facias of the 2 roofs ( carport and alcove) , i can see they are at different heights ( using brick coursing as a visual guide)

Image

Now we know that the Alcove roof and the carport/entry gallery/bedroom roof's are the same structural depth ( 300mm) and the alcove beds and entry gallery have the same ceiling height.

So is this different of fascia height ( alcove is lower) due to slight slope in the Alcove roof framing?,

I see, that phot is post roof restoration works.

This Photo of same junction looks like pre restoration - but seems to show the same thing!

Image
G Dorn
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Tom
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by Tom »

Yep, I agree.
Makes me wonder - there was just a lot of field work adjustment in the construction of this house.
May account for some of the questions coming up at this point.

In terms of basement. The new owners put that stair in going down.
So how was that space accessed before?
Check this shot out:

Image
Last edited by Tom on Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

g.dorn
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by g.dorn »

Am I correct in my understanding that the open grill and stepped out brickwork? means there is a void behind - under the planter and studio corner where the hydronic floor heater system is ?

Image
G Dorn
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Tom
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by Tom »

Our posts crossed.
I think that stepped out brick work is a hinged door, crazy but how else do you access underneath without the stair?
Looks like there must be a lot of space under this house.
Something one never hears about.
I mean - according to the owner photographs - there is post and beam poured in place concrete construction under this place!

g.dorn
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by g.dorn »

Tom wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:01 am
Tom wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 9:32 pm
(That's a 6" difference from the interior ceiling, which is not possible unless the lower 2X4 is eliminated from the interior portion of the joist.
This might be the case. Interior shots of the kitchen show a 4" to 6" wood cased header above the kitchen clerestory glass. That header is not visible to me in exterior shots and on the elevation drawing the top of the glass of that clerestory seems to butt directly into the bottom of the eave with no cased header.
<snip>
I see what you mean
This photo of gallery entry , shows quite a large header over the doors , which seems to follow through to the kitchen
Image
G Dorn
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Tom
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Re: Goetsch-Winckler Usonian house

Post by Tom »

Yeah, who knows what went on in building this place.
I'd wager the thickness of that header was not intended by Wright.

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