Conservancy conference-Day Two

SDR · Post by **SDR** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:55 pm

Is Mister Kamin being ciriticized for his use of "Mr Wright" ? Sorry if I missed something. Didn't virtually everyone at Taliesin use "Mr Wright" as a matter of respect -- even if a few called him Daddy Frank behind his back ?

SDR

PS -- Number of syllables isn't the only criterion for "easy on the tongue". . .!

SpringGreen · Post by **SpringGreen** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 5:26 pm

f you go by number of syllables spoken, it's a wash:

Frank/Lloyd/Wright = Mis/ter/Wright

True, but the "nk+L" of Frank Lloyd Wright is clunkier to say than the "r+Wr" of Mr. Wright.

Paul Ringstrom · Post by **Paul Ringstrom** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:44 pm

Is Mister Kamin being ciriticized for his use of "Mr Wright" ? Sorry if I missed something. Didn't virtually everyone at Taliesin use "Mr Wright" as a matter of respect -- even if a few called him Daddy Frank behind his back ?

No, Mr. Kamin's opinion was that the use of "Mr. Wright" was too reverential and portrayed him as a demigod.

SDR · Post by **SDR** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 7:50 pm

Oh dear me.

That man needs to find something that interests him, maybe ?

SDR

DavidC · Post by **DavidC** » Wed Oct 24, 2007 8:43 pm

Paul Ringstrom wrote:... Mr. Kamin's opinion was that the use of "Mr. Wright" was too reverential and portrayed him as a demigod.

If that's the case, I wonder if he feels that the original homeowners fall into the same 'demigogery' category - since so many of them seemed to refer to him as 'Mr. Wright', too.

I don't think I'm going too far out on a limb to speculate that those who did use 'Mr. Wright' would actually categorize it as showing respect for the man - and his accomplishments.

David

Roderick Grant · Post by **Roderick Grant** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:16 am

I agree with Paul Harding's comments on Kamin. Anyone who applies for the position of architecture critic of a major (or minor) paper should be held to the standards of Ada Louise Huxtable, and falling short, should be rejected. One does not do the job of criticism by saying outlandish things to stir controversy. That's what the National Inquirer is for. Perhaps that is where Mr. Kamin should apply for a job.

Mark Hertzberg · Post by **Mark Hertzberg** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:57 am

As the author of the original posting, I would like to see this turn into the intended discussion of the ideas and challenges put forth at the panel discussion, rather than a debate about what one thinks of Blair Kamin as an architecture critic.

Mark Hertzberg

pharding · Post by **pharding** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:19 am

what is the point of discussing his outlandish comments?

MHOLUBAR · Post by **MHOLUBAR** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:27 am

In general I too agree with Paul Harding's comments and I need to apologize for being too flippant with my past remarks. I have been chastised on several occasions for referring to FLW as 'Frank' and contact with Conservancy members has enlightened me on that subject. Both Mr. Harding and Mr. Wright deserve more respect than that.
I do agree with Mr. Hertzberger that Blair Kamin's remarks were made, and repeated, to lighten the atmosphere and encourage discussion and they did. I think many of us would like to make architecture more accessible and familiar without dumbing it down and that might be the real problem. I like to say that FLW 'orchestrated' the space in his buildings because the public here tends to be more interested and familiar with music. I think that FLW's main concerns in architecture were aesthetic, rather than technical, and he worked very hard, with varying degrees of success, to keep highly technical people involved in the design process.
But I've been wrong before.

outside in · Post by **outside in** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:53 am

Some of the posts are extremely entertaining! Thanks.

I think the point should be made that the way in which Wright was addressed is history, and it really doesn't matter anymore...you can call him whatever you want, I think.

Blair Kamin has been an advocate for preservation, FLW, LHS and many other good Chicago architects, and to rake him over the coals for a comment that is perceived as "off" or inappropriate is extremely heavy-handed. Mr. Kamin deserves a great of respect for his work, and I believe that we should all be honored that he chose to attend the conference.

pharding · Post by **pharding** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:50 pm

outside in wrote:Some of the posts are extremely entertaining! Thanks.

I think the point should be made that the way in which Wright was addressed is history, and it really doesn't matter anymore...you can call him whatever you want, I think.

Blair Kamin has been an advocate for preservation, FLW, LHS and many other good Chicago architects, and to rake him over the coals for a comment that is perceived as "off" or inappropriate is extremely heavy-handed. Mr. Kamin deserves a great of respect for his work, and I believe that we should all be honored that he chose to attend the conference.

I felt honored that he was there also. I also believe the FLWBC and FLW Enthusiasts have done great things for our communities, City of Chicago, architecture, and historic preservation. As a FLW homeowner I was offended by the warped association with over 400 people who committed suicide. Apparently you do not find the association offensive. We should not have been insulted with obnoxious, demeaning remarks at an important national conference. Blair is a not a demi-god above criticism. What did he expect a well educated group that has accomplished so much to say? "Isn't it wonderful that we are being insulted by the CHICAGO Tribune architecture critic? I am so glad that I spent $700 and spent 4 days at this conference for this rare privelige. Oh, aren't his comments hilarious?".

outside in · Post by **outside in** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:08 pm

I think you should lighten up.

pharding · Post by **pharding** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:08 am

This reminds me of the movie "Crash" with underlying theme that we all have filters through which we see things and draw different conclusions. Another great, great architect whose work I highly admire is Louis Kahn. He taught at my alma mater, Penn. Louis Kahn had marital woes and financial problems that actually exceeded that of Frank Lloyd Wright. (I must admire the wrong architects.) In grad school and at conferences everyone knew about his personal issues. Those issues in no way distracted or were used by speakers for "humor" or to "lighten up" what we were trying to learn and discuss. We weren't there to study his marital theories, his numerous affairs, illegitimate kids, or his personal financial problems. We were there to discuss and learn about his great ideas and great buildings. The other stuff about Louis Kahn wasn't used to make some kind of humorous point by a speaker, panelist, professor. I cannot imagine that happening in Philadelphia. I was surprised at those remarks by the panelist at the FLWBC Conference even if intended to "lighten up" the discussion. I personally found them misguided and inappropriate especially in light of what has collectively been accomplished by the attendees. This is as good a forum as any to express my thoughts on the matter. Apparently with your and my filters we see things differently which is to be expected and not a big deal.

JimM · Post by **JimM** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 2:00 pm

Entertaining indeed, and with due respect to Mr. Hertzberg, this aspect is more interesting than Mr. Kamin's comments, especially since I was not there to have an opinion. I also interchange Wright and Frank; I think the knee-jerk reverential aspect of only using "Mr. Wright" is as ridiculous and as conscious as the revulsion some find in those who use "Frank". I agree with Mr. outside in that it's unimportant what you call him, I think. And as Mr. TnGuy points out, clients were understandably reverential, and calling him "Mr. Wright" was appropriate for them and above criticism. Many he called friends used "Frank", and after all, Mr. Wright (oops!) is/was the only one who should be offended-if at all-on how to be addressed, and obviously we don't have that to consider.

Mr. MHOLUBAR should not feel despondent or be chastized for his/her past transgressions, and since Frank has been my bud since I was 14, I will address him as I see fit-and need no one judging my appreciation or respect for Wright's work relative to how I refer to him.

Now, I may agree with Wilber that "Mr. Ed" is a different matter.....

jlesshafft · Post by **jlesshafft** » Fri Oct 26, 2007 3:37 pm

Here I go again, getting myself in trouble.

I also don't think that "drink the kool-aid" at this point and time in our vernacular really has any reference to Jonestown. According to Wikipedia:

"The idiomatic expression, â€œdrinking the Kool-Aidâ€�, was originally a reference to the Merry Pranksters, a group of people associated with novelist Ken Kesey who, in the early 1960s, travelled around the United States and held events called â€œAcid Testsâ€�, where LSD-laced Kool-Aid was passed out to the public (LSD was legal at that time). Those who drank the â€œKool-Aidâ€� passed the â€œAcid Testâ€�. â€œDrinking the Kool-Aidâ€� in that context meant accepting the LSD drug culture, and the Prankstersâ€™ â€œturned onâ€� point of view. These events were described in Tom Wolfeâ€™s 1968 classic, The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test.[4]"

The generally accepted definition appears to be:

"drink the Kool-Aid v. To become a firm believer in something; to accept an argument or philosophy wholeheartedly or blindly."