Wright Salmon Color

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pharding
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Post by pharding »

I would add that photographs are not necessarily highly accurate in terms of color rendition. Color rendition is impacted by the amount and color of the light striking it. Another issue when evaluating a color through photographs is the human eye has a much greater dynamic range than a photograph can achieve. Digital cameras capture color differently than film does. The best way to replicate a color that you like is to use a Munsell chart or paint samples held up against the actual target color.
Paul Harding FAIA Restoration Architect for FLW's 1901 E. Arthur Davenport House, 1941 Lloyd Lewis House, 1952 Glore House | www.harding.com | LinkedIn

jlesshafft
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Post by jlesshafft »

To add to Paul's reply above...

There are going to be perhaps hundreds of things that are going to affect your trying to match a color from a photograph. Colors fade over time, then someone takes a photo; depending on the temperature of the light, the color is going to change. In post processing of the photo (whether from an original digital, or add a step and convert a film negative to a digital), the processor can change the hue, saturation, luminance, color temperature etc to more correctly match what he "remembers he saw."

Then someone is going to change the RGB color space (and there are several different RGB color spaces) used in digital photography to a CMYK color space used in printing and lithography. Guess, what....all color spaces are different in the gamut they cover. Some hues might not translate correctly from one color space to another.

Once the book or magazine is laid out, the color could be changed, the dynamic range lessened etc. to save money on the inks used, etc.

When the final object is printed, the quality, age and maintenance of the press plays a large part in the final image. Mass produced items have very minor quality control. A high level limited edition print could have a hundred or more proofs before the artist approves of the final version. Even during the printing run, some prints might not match the artists approval.

The only way to match a color precisely is to have the RGB color signature of the original (or the CMYK signature). For example, in RGB, white is 0, 0, 0, and black is 255, 255, 255). Trying to match a sample against an original is also going to vary depending on the lighting and the persons visual acuity, not to mention the reflections of items in the environment.

The best book that explains all of this is about 400 pages long. It's good reading for an insomniac.

Roderick Grant
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Post by Roderick Grant »

"Moving target" indeed. I would say that FLW's use of color would be more varied for fabrics and murals; when I disparage the use of pink at the Ts, I am referring to elements of structure. TWest has a sort of desert rose used extensively which I adamantly refuse to believe he selected. As for the Ablin House, Millie told me the Pepto hue was chosen by Olga (Tom Olson who supervised construction might verify that), and that, while she was skeptical, she was too intimidated to argue the point. Just as Mrs. Elsner was when she had her Bogk rug remade and her Heritage Henredon furniture reupholstered. All Olga. Pink, however, as I noted elsewhere, was not totally beyond FLW. For sheers in the living room of Barnsdall, he specified a fabric comprised of pink woof and lime green warp. Of course, the resultant color was neither.

jlesshafft
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Post by jlesshafft »

Typo in my post above....black is 0,0,0 and white is 255, 255, 255

Wrightgeek
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Wright Salmon Color

Post by Wrightgeek »

FYI, having just toured the Robie House within the past 10 days, I can attest to the fact that in the recently restored dining room prow area, there is a portion of the wall and/or ceiling that has been restored to a historically accurate salmon colored finish.

I would describe this color as a warm pinkish tone, with undertones of golds and browns, as opposed to the cold pink, Pepto Bismalish color referred to in an earlier post.

Based on this, it would appear as though FLW had included the salmon color into his palette as early as 1908-1910.

SDR
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Post by SDR »

Interesting and useful information, all. Thanks !

These are two of the more colorful Taliesin presentation boards that I have seen in print. I have done my best to reproduce them as seen on the page -- for what that's worth.

Image
Solomon R Guggenheim Museum, New York, 1943 -- Tempera on art board
(1993 Pomegranate Engagement Calendar)

Image
Arch Oboler House, Malibu, California, 1940-41
(2001 Deluxe Engagement Book, ©2000 Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation)

RJH
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Post by RJH »

I called M-S paint to try and get a sample of the Hollyhock Pink. They said they do not make it anymore and since their license agreement with the FLW Foundation expired in 2003, they were forced to destroy all materials pertaining to FLW. They said they have a similar color called “Confetti.� They said technically it can’t be an exact match…wink…wink. However, they discontinued their “Confetti� color as well. But, they had a sample, though. From this sample they recreated the formula. They told me I can go to Pratt & Lambert paint dealer and give them this formula:

PRATT & LAMBERT
P&L COLORANT
(WILL NOT WORK IN ACE STORES)
1. F 1 OZ. + 6/48.
2. T 3OZ. + 2/48.
3. V 1OZ. + 17/48.
4. M 23/48.

Let me know how it works if anyone gets a sample.

googieagog
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Post by googieagog »

Don't know how much Wright had to do with the final execution, but the Gammage Auditorium color has quite a bit of pink, which also might be described as a kind of orange.

We visited Taliesin West last summer. (BTW, there's no such thing as Taliesin East. That's like calling York, England "Old York.") Anyway, a very young docent on the night tour told us an interesting story -- after noting she wasn't supposed to, and was doing so only because the fellows weren't around. I asked why the Wrights' bedroom looked brand spanking new. She explained it had been completely restored and opened to the public only recently. It had been sealed off for decades. Seems that shortly after the master's death, Mrs. Wright had the windows boarded up and the entire interior, masonry and all, painted a lurid shade of pink. To restore it, workers sanded the wood and sandblasted the stone. The docent then pointed out a small spot on the masonry where the pink still clung. One of the tourists quipped, "she must have really hated him, or at least his architecture."
Dan

SDR
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Post by SDR »

And they wonder why Mr Pfeiffer (and the others) deserve our sympathy !

SDR

pharding
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Post by pharding »

googieagog wrote:Don't know how much Wright had to do with the final execution, but the Gammage Auditorium color has quite a bit of pink, which also might be described as a kind of orange.

We visited Taliesin West last summer. (BTW, there's no such thing as Taliesin East. That's like calling York, England "Old York.") Anyway, a very young docent on the night tour told us an interesting story -- after noting she wasn't supposed to, and was doing so only because the fellows weren't around. I asked why the Wrights' bedroom looked brand spanking new. She explained it had been completely restored and opened to the public only recently. It had been sealed off for decades. Seems that shortly after the master's death, Mrs. Wright had the windows boarded up and the entire interior, masonry and all, painted a lurid shade of pink. To restore it, workers sanded the wood and sandblasted the stone. The docent then pointed out a small spot on the masonry where the pink still clung. One of the tourists quipped, "she must have really hated him, or at least his architecture."
I don't want to hijack this thread, but in my opinion the most hideous thing that she did (and there were many, unfortunately) was to have Frank's body exhumed in 1983 from his family's cemetery and have it cremated. It is my understanding that the location of his ashes remain a mystery to this day. Or at least a mystery to the general public. What a vindicative, spiteful act.
Paul Harding FAIA Restoration Architect for FLW's 1901 E. Arthur Davenport House, 1941 Lloyd Lewis House, 1952 Glore House | www.harding.com | LinkedIn

SDR
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Post by SDR »

In Edgar Tafel's "About Wright" (1993) Iovanna (b 1925) has this to say about that:

"Some time before the recent removal of my father's remains from Wisconsin to Arizona, I had discussed this matter with my mother. We were sitting together in the cove in the house in the desert, and she was saying how awful she thought it was to have this coffin underground, with the worms chewing through it. It's much more beautiful -- much more airy, free and sunny -- in the desert, and the desert seemed far more appropriate. The graveyard had begun to be such a doleful, sorrowful place to visit. Moving the body was the very best thing to do. I was surprised at the idiotic, perfectly nasty reactions on the part of the Tobins (father's children by his first wife, Catherine Tobin). I really was. That was bad. They started the controversy, they stirred it all up -- Llewellyn, David and the others. Very, very bad. They had no right to cross my mother's wishes. Besides, really, if your stop to think about it, remains are remains, they're simply symbolic. They're nothing else."

I'm sure this has been chewed over plenty, and we should probably leave it behind. Edgar Tafel lets various members of the Wright family and circle have their say in this book; I don't believe there are any other comments in the book about this matter. Edgar does pass on this gem, though:

"My book, Apprentice to Genius, appeared in 1979, and Mrs Wright wrote a charming letter thanking me for its existence. Soon after, however, her attroney demanded from the publisher $10,000 for alleged infringements of copyrights. The suit was settled a year later for $400. A direct word was never spoken from her to me about it."

As this is all an aside to the thread, I suggest that silence is the best response to the above -- at least in public, and for now.

Where were we ?

SDR

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