Wright Salmon Color

To control SPAM, you must now be a registered user to post to this Message Board.

EFFECTIVE 14 Nov. 2012 PRIVATE MESSAGING HAS BEEN RE-ENABLED. IF YOU RECEIVE A SUSPICIOUS DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS AND PLEASE REPORT TO THE ADMINISTRATOR FOR FURTHER INVESTIGATION.

This is the Frank Lloyd Wright Building Conservancy's Message Board. Wright enthusiasts can post questions and comments, and other people visiting the site can respond.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, *-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time they see fit.
RJH
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Contact:

Wright Salmon Color

Post by RJH »

Does anyone have any information on Wright’s use of the Salmon color pink? This is the same color used on the SC Johnson Wax chairs. I have also seen the color used in TEast on the walls. I would like to get the paint code.

SDR
Posts: 20086
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

I would be amused to learn that Wright's salmon was "Cherokee red" tinted with white. It certainly wouldn't surprise me. . .

SDR

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10537
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Post by Roderick Grant »

After Wright died, Olga had her way with the Taliesins, including a reinterpretation of Taliesin red. If there is any pink at Johnson Wax, it isn't original; FLW's red was nowhere near pink.

SDR
Posts: 20086
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Did not Wright introduce a salmon color into his palette, in the fifties ? My impression of this seems to predate his death. . .

SDR

RJH
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Contact:

Post by RJH »

Rod, is there any way to confirm this? I am pretty sure this "pink" was used quite a bit. I even recall seeing the color painted on one of the walls of TEast. I think even old photos of SC Johnson have this color too. I also saw this color used on several of the walls on Max Hoffman.

The reason why I ask is I would like to get an area rug in this color to put in the section in front of haynes's fireplace. I woulg like gold but it will get dirty too fast.

Any suggestions?

SDR
Posts: 20086
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Salmon rug on red concrete floor would be good, I think. . .

SDR

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10537
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Post by Roderick Grant »

I suppose the problem with discussing color is the casual use of many terms. Mauve, for example, has a very distinct definition, but many would confuse it with heliotrope or violet. Pink I regard as primary red lightened with pure white, common to frosting and angora sweaters. This is not a color FLW would use, and it is not close to Taliesin red, as I define it. Look at the wine mulling vat at Fallingwater for a good definition, in my view, of TR. "Salmon" like most colors that refer to organic sources, comes in a wide variety of hues, the pinkest of which would appear to be the farmed salmon, which is dyed. If there is anything along the Pepto Bismol hue at Taliesin, East or West, I doubt FLW had anything to do with it.

SDR
Posts: 20086
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Salmon to me would be a very warm "pink" -- like adding white to Taliesin Red, as opposed to primary red. Is it being proposed that any such color, used in late and posthumous Wright work, was the work of Olgivanna ?

SDR

RJH
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Contact:

Post by RJH »

Take a look at FLW: The Houses under TEast. You can see the pink plaster/color there (if memory severes me). I kind of like it....

RJH
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Contact:

Post by RJH »

Here is a pic of "pink" from Max Hoffman. This was the garage that has been converted to BRs (so not orginal color).

By the way, the wood you see is Italian Cypress and not the regular cypress you see in Haynes and most other FLW houses. Not sure what the difference is. Nice clean wood....but I didn't care much for it. No red hue.

Image

SDR
Posts: 20086
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

Well, that's certainly not salmon -- more like raspberry, no ?

Storrer says the 1958 Ablin house is made of "salmon-tinted concrete block." Here's a pic from Gebhard's "Romanza":
Image

Or, maybe the salmon we're reporting is just faded Cherokee red, like the spine of this dust-jacket:
Image

Ed Jarolin
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:06 pm
Location: Wyoming

Post by Ed Jarolin »

Don't know when that picture of Ablin was taken, but by 1974, if memory serves, it appeared to me to have been painted. Painted a color that , to my eye at least, was very much a Pepto pink.

On the other hand, when I saw the Pappas house, in the same general time frame, it was in it's integrally tinted concrete block (don't know if it still is). Whether this color was ever refered to as "salmon" I don't know, but I would call it rust or the burnt orange of a fall leaf.

SDR
Posts: 20086
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

It's hard to tell if the pics of Ablin in Gebhard (1988) show a painted block surface, but they definitely are painted -- brightly -- in a 1994 book, "Details of Frank Lloyd Wright" (Zimmerman and Dunham). The interior of another CMU house in the same book (Walton, 1957) are painted in pinkish tones.

I don't have a color photo of Pappas, but for what it's worth Storrer calls it salmon-tinted block. Time of day can have a huge effect on the appearance of color, of course. (Why don't people clean or even powder-blast masonry surfaces, rather than painting them ?)

SDR

SDR
Posts: 20086
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Post by SDR »

A photo of the Johnson Wax office furniture (in "Fifty Favorite Furnishings. . ." [Maddex]) shows Cherokee (?) red steel and perhaps a salmon fabric upholstery. Is that what you were referring to ?

SDR

wjsaia
Posts: 233
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:53 pm

Paint Colors

Post by wjsaia »

Depending upon what source one references, the human eye is said to be capable of distinguishing somewhere between 3 and 16 million different colors. This renders it more than a bit daunting to hope that one might be able to communicate verbally to another a very precise understanding of the characteristics of a certain color by naming it.

RJG has spoken of "salmon pink", and Rod Grant of "pink". There may be hundreds of thousands of hues which we might agree would qualify to be described by those names, but still there would remain the impossible task of deciding which from amongst those really is the most desired hue.

In 1997 Martin Senour released its The Frank Lloyd Wright Collection – The Classic Colors of Contemporary Culture, claiming that this was a reissuing of the color palette of 27 colors which Frank Lloyd Wright developed for Martin Senour in 1955. There is an archival photo of FLlW in the 1997 color chart brochure showing him holding the 1955 color chart. I don't have one of those to compare with the 1997 collection, which, incidentally, has many more than 27 colors in it.

But, what about other colors? Is anyone to believe that FLlW didn't like any of them? I suggest not being afraid to use a color one likes even if it happens to be among the 15,999,973 hues FLlW didn't select.

I'm confident that the Steelcase furniture used at Johnson Wax is a reliable reference as to what FLlW thought was a good red color for paint on metal. One would be safe enough taking any good published color photograph which shows that furniture and making a reasonable match, possibly with some available color chip from a paint manufacturer. If that fails, one could blend some close enough colors or tints to obtain a satisfactory representation of the color being sought. Then, a good paint store could run a computer match and provide paint in the desired color. I wonder if maybe Cassini has touch-up paint available for its replica Johnson Wax desks, if they are still in production. (?)

As for the current question of RJH wishing to replicate the Johnson Wax furniture upholstery color for the upholstery however, that's much more difficult. I remember the original upholstery being on the pink side. There is one color in the 1997 Martin Senour Collection which appears to be close to the Hoffman bedrooms color RJH's photo shows, It is called "Hollyhock Bloom" FLW-37. Personally, I don't like it much. I wonder if FLlW had it in his 1955 Palette. It is definitely not the Steelcase furniture metal color, but it does seem somewhat close to the upholstery color. Mind you, that statement is made based on my memory of a three-legged Johnson Wax chair which John Ottenheimer used to use for his drafting stool at Taliesin West over 40 years ago (and often enough tipped over in). How's that for a reliable means of identifying a color!

There was a very good red wall color in the Taliesin Studio, and the 1997 Martin Senour color chart includes several photos of that. But, there is no color in the 1997 Collection which comes close to matching it. Nor is there there anything at all resembling FLlW's most-used color of all, "the color of straw", amongst the colors in the Collection. It's curious. I seriously wonder how reliable even this reference is. I would like to hear from anyone who can compare, side-by-side, the colors in the 1955 Palette with the 1997 Collection.

No matter what, these are moving targets. Fabrics fade. Paint fades. Color chips fade. Eyes fail. Light sources change. Also, it's not a reasonable expectation to think that a color represented by wall paint could ever be duplicated exactly in fiber and then woven into a rug which would match the appearance of the hue in the painted finish.

Post Reply