Bernard Schwartz House

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g.dorn
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by g.dorn »

Trellis framing - Ive now viewed the Taliesin drawings.

well it looks like Toms thinking was pretty close to on the mark about where the steel would be located - even the counterweight tie. wher steel beam cross - they are welded to each other

Attached is my interpretation of the Jack Howe certified drawing of the trellis steel . Im not sure if I am allowed to post the actual Taliesin drawing.

Imageschwartz trellis howe certifed by g dorn, on Flickr


and there is also a Sheet 5 Framing Plan July 1939 which showed an alternative layout -

Imageschwartz trellis taliesin by g dorn, on Flickr

I wonder which got built
G Dorn
Perth Western Australia
www.dornworks.com
think, design, build

Tom
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by Tom »

This framing makes me think of PJohnsons 'lally column' remark.
I prefer the alternative scheme myself

Thanks GDorn

in your diagrams - the red is steel correct?

SDR
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by SDR »

Gary, I've been posting Taliesin drawings here for almost 14 years without objection of any kind. I generally credit the illustrations as follows, depending on the source:

© 198_ A.D.A. EDITA Tokyo Co., Ltd. and by the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation

© 2009 by TASCHEN GmbH and by the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation

According to what you were recently sent, the credit should now read:

© The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives (The Museum of Modern Art | Avery Architectural & Fine Arts Library, Columbia University, New York)

S

g.dorn
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by g.dorn »

so if I post this Sh5 framing plan for instance ( note - its rather a big image file 2.85MB)


Image

© The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives (The Museum of Modern Art | Avery Architectural & Fine Arts Library, Columbia University, New York)

then its not violation of copyright?

nor affect the privilage they are providing to view these drawings.
G Dorn
Perth Western Australia
www.dornworks.com
think, design, build

Tom
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by Tom »

Fantastic- got to hand it to you.
Notice how the second floor hallway balcony is framed a straight shot in this drawing - no stepped widening.
GDorn- is it possible to post some enlarged sections of the drawing so we could read some of the notes?
I have opened it in a separate link and enlarged 1x from there and been able to read most of the notes, but some remain obscure.

keep 'em coming ... let the wild rumpus begin.

g.dorn
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by g.dorn »

The archive drawings are PDF's - when converting them to a raster file - some of the resolution gets lost - I was hoping PNG would keep the detail.

This is about as large As I can go before the pdf looses its readability - some text needs decifering

for instance top left says, "top 2 x4 continuous over Beam" - Beam being a double - " 8" x 27 - 41 CE Section cont 16' long
perpedicular to this beam is a fascia beam- with note saying " top 2 x 4 continuous over 7" 17/25 am st ? channel"

joists are 3 -2 x 4 superimposed @ 1'9" oc

screen shot of Carport framing
Image

© The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives (The Museum of Modern Art | Avery Architectural & Fine Arts Library, Columbia University, New York)

notice the floor framing over kitchen ( 2- 3- 2 x 4 sup'd)

also it appears they didnt build the GF cloak closet ( with brick wall?) - so I wonder if the floor framing as built differs from this drawing.

steel beam at end of kitchen say 5" (or 8") 35 cn section cant 27' long

timber beam says 2(3- 2x4 superimposed

joist are dining area are 2- 2x4 superimposed
(bottom 7' ? from mat)

intriguing - I thing I got the framing reasonably close.
G Dorn
Perth Western Australia
www.dornworks.com
think, design, build

g.dorn
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by g.dorn »

screen shot of other parts of this sheet

Trellis framing

notice the extra pier drawn in to support the trellis at the end!

Image

recreation roof framing

Image

Bedroom roof framing
Image

© The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives (The Museum of Modern Art | Avery Architectural & Fine Arts Library, Columbia University, New York)
G Dorn
Perth Western Australia
www.dornworks.com
think, design, build

g.dorn
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by g.dorn »

and the Jack Howe certified trellis steel drawing

Image


© The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives (The Museum of Modern Art | Avery Architectural & Fine Arts Library, Columbia University, New York)
G Dorn
Perth Western Australia
www.dornworks.com
think, design, build

Tom
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by Tom »

Dorn - did they send you a plan to match this framing?
Looks like the entry corridor is one unit wide before opening up to the large two unit wide 'recreation' area.
That is more like what we expect from Wright as opposed to what was built
- where the entry is pratically the full width of the 'recreation' area as soon as you walk through the door.

Also you are right about the end pier.
Looks like they originally planned for six piers coming down the terrace to the river
but opted for five and thus the more dramatic trellis cantilever.
It also molds the interior space more like what one would expect from Wright.
From the framing plan it appears as if the original interior corner of the terrace wall was not "cut-out"
but simply turned a clean 90 degree turn on the inside.
The spatial as built condition is more complex and interwoven.

The Jack Howe trellis drawing seems to be the one corresponding to the as built condition.
All very cool stuff.

g.dorn
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by g.dorn »

tom
there are multiple versions of the floor plans and elevations - some area dated and some are not

one sheet (not dated )has a full basement below the kitchen and dining area - this version also indicates a separating wall between carport and entry, and the a wider nook (lounge) area , with a skylight in each roof bay over recreation room - which has a full height ceiling to end of the room ie no lower ceiling deck over lounge (nook)

Image

Image[/url]

these plans seem to correspond to the elevation sheet previously posted.
ie
Image

and then we have series of revisions dated july and oct 1939, which starts to show a version closer to what is built.
this revision - creates low ceiling to lounge, deletes recreation room skylight, deletes basement, lowers carport roof to floor level, deletes carport screen wall, adds yard and wall to rear of utility room, has corner door/window to dining room.

Image

© The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives (The Museum of Modern Art | Avery Architectural & Fine Arts Library, Columbia University, New York)
Last edited by g.dorn on Fri May 29, 2020 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
G Dorn
Perth Western Australia
www.dornworks.com
think, design, build

g.dorn
Posts: 236
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 12:59 am
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by g.dorn »

July 1939 revision

SH2 Main floor plan
Image

SH4 Upper floor plan
Image

Revised Utility room
Image

There are other sheets of the Furniture + millwork dated 1940 and whats possibly an early concept sketch

I am wondering, as these do not fully represent the built works, that maybe there was another revised set, that was sent to site, and I guess became posession of the House, and that Taliesin didn't keep a copy!

© The Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation Archives (The Museum of Modern Art | Avery Architectural & Fine Arts Library, Columbia University, New York)
G Dorn
Perth Western Australia
www.dornworks.com
think, design, build

SDR
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by SDR »

That last is a perfectly plausible scenario . . .

Aren't these concoctions of wood and brick delicious ? They evoke so many things, simultaneously: European Constructivist abstraction rendered in all-too-real material; Asian temple made usable for the modern nuclear family; Lincoln Log or Erector Set refined by an adult architectural sensibility.

As drawing they are divine; as built reality they are profane---worldly, down-to-earth.

S

Tom
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by Tom »

Yep
It's great to see the changes, the development - all the work they put into it.

Matt2
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by Matt2 »

Is it safe to say that Wright could come up with the design, then Howe and others were left to making it work (where the steel would go)?

Tom
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Re: Bernard Schwartz House

Post by Tom »

I don't think it's safe to say that.
I think Wright is always thinking structurally from the start.
From the start, I think, he knows in general exactly how it is going to work.

I realize there is disagreement here.
Yet, I do think that Wright is placing steel from the very start.
My bottom line argument for this is the Robie House.

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