Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

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jay
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Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by jay »

Jay and Stephen- I hope we all can agree that there is a significant difference between the removal of confederate (traitors) statues and those of FDR and Lincoln.
Well sure, my personal opinion is that FDR was the best American president. Not perfect, but who is?

However, the whole point of the democracy is for the people to make collective decisions. The question of "where do we stop?" is answered by the people. Earlier you (Peter) were defending the actions of the hippies, which some might say was a social "overreaction" in their critique of that era's status quo. I'd say advancements were made from their cause, and their excesses then became the critique of the next generation.

For a music analogy, the excessiveness of Stadium Rock'n'Roll and Disco was discarded for Punk Rock and New Wave... Those were then subsequently discarded by the next generation of music artists, etc.

So I'd suggest when it "goes too far" is when a movement exhausts itself, naturally.

The fact that Peter and SDR are saying 'this is going too far' makes me think that we're seeing that exhaustion taking place... Regardless, I still don't think it's a big deal for schools in SF to change their names if they'd like.

Roderick Grant
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Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Roderick Grant »

"However, the whole point of the democracy is for the people to make collective decisions."

Sounds like populism to me.

peterm
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Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by peterm »

Populism is a symptom rather than a cause of a weakened democracy.
It emerges organically when people lose faith in institutions. Cries about “the elite” and “systems being rigged” resonate with people who feel powerless, but are unable to locate the source of injustices.

SDR
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Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by SDR »

If you dumb down the populace, take active measures to deny education, keep them happy with mindless entertainment and copious supplies of consumer goods---for decades---then introduce a new medium providing an even higher level of instant gratification which (unintentionally) serves as a news source and (intentionally) a conduit of malicious misinformation, you get us to today, where c. 40% of the public think we had a bogus election. Good luck with that . . .

S

jay
Posts: 364
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by jay »

Populism is a symptom rather than a cause of a weakened democracy.
It emerges organically when people lose faith in institutions. Cries about “the elite” and “systems being rigged” resonate with people who feel powerless, but are unable to locate the source of injustices.
That might be the best description of populism I've ever read...

The populist movement happening on the right, which Trump has a lot to do with, is pretty remarkable. It's pretty clear what Trump's specific draw was. But will the GOP carry on his style of right-wing populism?
I happened to catch an interview on NPR about the GOP's future after Trump, and the guest floated a very interesting theory called "the reversal", where the GOP becomes the party of the working class and Democrats the party of business... As the guest points out, in many ways the shift has already happened.
Fast forward to minute marker 27:08
https://www.npr.org/2020/11/17/93577664 ... ican-party

Tim
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Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Tim »

Jay, The Democrats haven't supported the working class in any kind of principled way... in a long, long time. Maybe Senator Sanders is the exception. However, his brand of progressivism has been perverted by globalism (so it seems to me).

jay
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Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by jay »

...So the story goes, repeatedly, on Fox News....

Tim
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Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Tim »

That's right.

In the meantime, listen to NPR, continue to be surprised by Republicans picking up working class voters, all demographics. When doubt creeps in... blame Trump (good until 2028, 2 elections), right wing populism (evergreen excuse), and Fascism (be careful not to overuse). :twisted:

Tim
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Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Tim »


peterm
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Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by peterm »

Tim- You wrote: “The Democrats haven't supported the working class in any kind of principled way... in a long, long time.”

Maybe you’re forgetting that the Grand Old Party controls the Senate, and any legislation coming from the Democrat controlled House of Representatives that is pro worker has been repeatedly blocked by Mitch. How convenient for the cynics on the right to then say the Dems do nothing for workers, while their leader promises border walls, xenophobia, racism and tax breaks for the richest.

The next step is for the Republicans to begin repeating their hollow concerns about the deficit, now that their opposition is in power in the White House. We haven’t heard a peep about it for four years. The new mantra will again be, “We simply can’t afford it.”

Tim
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Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Tim »

Peterm - I actually said ... The Democrats haven't supported the working class in any kind of principled way... in a long, long time. Maybe Senator Sanders is the exception. However, his brand of progressivism has been perverted by globalism (so it seems to me).

The Democrat leadership torpedoed Senator Sanders twice.

Leaving aside that, the Democrats have had plenty of opportunity to show support for the working class. Blame Mitch all you want. That doesn't change a thing.
Last edited by Tim on Mon Dec 21, 2020 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tim
Posts: 403
Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:52 pm

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Tim »

Peterm - Yes, we can agree. The Republicans will complain about deficits. Like Al Gore sitting in his mansion and flying around the globe bemoaning global warming. It is comical and sad, at the same time.

Tim
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:52 pm

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Tim »

The good news: We are 6 pages into this thread. No one seems to like Philip Johnson.

The question: Did we ever like Philip Johnson? Or is Wright Chat recently woke?

SDR
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Location: San Francisco

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by SDR »

You didn't hear me condemn Mr Johnson. We rebels have to stick together . . .!

My point in starting this thread was to complain about the unnecessary condemnation of a dead architect. The Philip Johnson I perceived when he was alive was not an unlikable fellow, by all accounts. I continue to question the motivations of the suddenly "woke," who seem intent on proving something . . . about themselves ?

In any event, the matters discussed here subsequently are infinitely more important to America and Americans today--it seems to me !

S

Tim
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:52 pm

Re: Article: Cancel Culture pays a visit to Philip Johnson

Post by Tim »

SDR, you are always thoughtful and fair enough. Your last post is probably a good ending to this conversation. I'm tapping out. :D

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