Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

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KevinW
Posts: 1287
Joined: Sun Feb 06, 2005 6:41 pm

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by KevinW »

I sit on the terrace in a bathrobe with a shotgun...any Architectural lookie lous are met with.."Go on now..GIT!"
KevinW

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10569
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by Roderick Grant »

Jay, I neither said nor implied that looking for a vaccine is a waste of time, generally speaking, but that, considering how previous and ongoing attempts to find vaccines for coronaviruses have failed utterly, to suggest that a vaccine might be available by the end of the year, as the CDC has, is not a useful message. Nor have I implied that allowing people to die while we wait for the pandemic to exhaust itself should be policy. Yet it may be inevitable. Nor is it just the people dealing with the illness who are threatened by death by poverty; everyone who ends up without survival means is subject to an unhappy end.

Perhaps I make assumptions about (as SDR would say) people reading between the lines. The US has an estimated population of 329,000,000 people as of 2020. They come from every square foot of every habitable part of the globe. Making generalizations about such a diverse population as a collection of individuals is pointless. By stating that things were better in the past, I assumed, perhaps unreasonably, that it would be understood that it meant the public and political life. Maybe we who are not part of a downtrodden subgroup were living in a fool's paradise, but the political world, probably because Al Gore had yet to invent the Internet, was not the toxic place it has become, starting in the early 60s and continuing to the present. One can hope we come to terms with the Digital Age, but I suspect I won't be around to see that happen, whether it is by COVID-19 or being hit by a bus.

jay
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by jay »

Roderick, https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-c ... d-n1150091

If you start from the premise that a vaccine won't be found, or science won't make big advancements in treatment in the medium-term, then you quickly find your "logic" in the field of: "herd immunity is the only answer / mass infections are inevitable / you can't save the people anyway so you might as well save the economy / etc etc". This is completely baseless logic. Baseless because it is not based in fact whatsoever. Nobody knows what science will deliver in the future; not when nor where nor how. Therefore, all people need to avoid getting sick right now, to allow time to reveal what advancements might be made.... It is way too early to suggest that putting children or younger people into harm's way is somehow what we need to do.... Just a total disgrace.

jay
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by jay »

Waiting for a vaccine is pointless. 15% of all common colds are coronaviruses for which no vaccine has ever been found. Nor have MERS or SARS been solved by vaccines. To assume that this time a vaccine will be found is like "doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55289726

Of the occasional instances on this board where I've been offended by certain comments, nothing has been more offensive than the attitudes expressed on this thread over the summer.

peterm
Posts: 6290
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by peterm »

I’m glad I missed this thread. Jeez... “Waiting for a vaccine is pointless.”

SDR
Posts: 20186
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by SDR »

The national well of informed consensus has been poisoned by malicious online misinformation and ignorant self-interest emanating from the highest office in the land. No wonder that a significant minority of the public doesn't trust the life-saving vaccines coming---better late than never---to your local dispensary. Ironically, this is analogous to the unbelievably large percentage of Americans who today (and for how long into the future ?) believe that the recent election was fraudulent . . .

And they said it couldn't happen here.

S
"As a former copy editor, I always feel I am defending the person whose name is being misspelled, not attacking the person who misspells it." Ronald Alan McCrea (1943-2019)

peterm
Posts: 6290
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by peterm »

The gullibility and lack of imagination (the positive, hopeful variety) are astounding.

I don’t want anyone I know to get hit by a bus *or* die from covid-19. My mother-in-law in Austria died from the virus a month ago. That’s enough.

3400 Americans today.

SDR
Posts: 20186
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by SDR »

I'm sorry to hear that, Peter; my condolences to you both. With a relatively small number of family members and acquaintances, I have yet to encounter a Covid death myself. Fortunately for me, a relatively secluded life has certain benefits . . .

S
Last edited by SDR on Thu Dec 17, 2020 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
"As a former copy editor, I always feel I am defending the person whose name is being misspelled, not attacking the person who misspells it." Ronald Alan McCrea (1943-2019)

peterm
Posts: 6290
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:27 am
Location: Chicago, Il.---Oskaloosa, Ia.

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by peterm »

It’s especially hard for my wife. She wasn’t able to see her, only zoom calls.

As to the previous comment saying we shouldn’t expect a vaccine, since no other corona virus vaccines exist, we might want to dig deeper than Fox News.

From May 2020:

https://theconversation.com/amp/coronav ... tic-137209

“Why don’t we have a vaccine against other human coronaviruses? The emergence of Sars and Mers, in 2002 and 2012 respectively, were either quashed relatively quickly or affected small numbers of people. Despite the interest from keen virologists, there was no economic incentive to develop a vaccine for these diseases as they posed a small threat at the time. Virologists with an interest in coronaviruses were struggling to secure funding for their research.

In contrast, COVID-19 has caused huge disruption around the world. As a result, at least 90 vaccines are under development, with some already in human trials.”



I love this notion that one shouldn’t fear a virus, yet the digital age is going to destroy us, as we communicate to each through “Al Gore’s internet”.

jay
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by jay »

It was reported yesterday that our government's response to Covid––just like some of the posters on this thread––was to let the country burn like wildfire with the virus, hoping to achieve "herd immunity":

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/1 ... gleVQllzWo

Beyond its inhumane and unethical approach, this is absolutely the worst way we could have dealt with a pandemic of this sort. As I pointed to earlier this summer, when we learned of the airborne nature of Covid, the sheer contagiousness of this virus is insane.... When we let the wildfire burn unchecked, it does exactly what one'd expect––it burns everything in its path. As Peter pointed out, 3400 people died yesterday, that's 1 person every 25 seconds. And many of those are in the exact categories of people whom even 'the administration' said should be protected and sheltered from the virus. But of course it doesn't work like that. The more virus going around, the more the vulnerable get infected.

The fact that members of this community bought into this baseless logic very much bothers me. Because I could care less about what someone's politics are.... but these political views followed a warped path into a completely illogical and disgraceful and inhumane position.

Simply put: critical thinking was entirely suspended due to political bias.

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10569
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by Roderick Grant »

"Because I could care less about what someone's politics are...."
Thanks, Jay. I needed a good laugh.

jay
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by jay »

I'll explain it to you this way, Roderick....
I believe in diversity. Diversity in culture and thought.
So, I don't care what religion someone believes in, or doesn't believe in. I don't care what a person's lifestyle choices are. Etc.
More so, I think there is real value in the diversity of all this.
This applies to political opinions as well.
One cannot believe in diversity and also be unaccepting of a political ideology.
However, there is a line that none of us should be accepted of crossing. This line is where racism, xenophobia, hatred comes into view. Likewise, when American democracy and the rule of power decided by voters is challenged, this also crosses the line.
Finally, when a political bias endangers the entire society because of baseless logic, this also crosses a line that none of us should accept.
So, I do not care what anyone's opinion on taxes is. I have my own opinions and share them sometimes. But when someone says democracy should be upended, or millions of people should go get sick, that person has crossed a very clear line.

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10569
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by Roderick Grant »

Jay, just to let you know, even though it may be that you are not religious, "anger" is one of the 7 deadly sins. That is what I hear from you and the left, anger and intolerance, Maxine Waters exhorting her followers to attack anyone who is not a saintly Democrat. "Antifa" should be renamed "Profa," and acknowledge the truth of the matter. Or maybe "Brown Shirts." Perhaps you could mention that at their next convention?

You call me Fascist, but recoil when I throw it back at you. It's easy to declare broadminded views, but demonstrating them is another thing altogether. It is also easy to attack others for not believing as you do on political matters by averring they are racist, homophobic, misogynist, and so forth, even when you know nothing substantive about them. It is utterly inconsequential what you think of me as a person; I have never tipped my hat, no matter what you think to the contrary.

jay
Posts: 358
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:04 pm

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by jay »

Roderick,
I take offense to the egregious things you've said, including on this thread where you said "Waiting for a vaccine is pointless". You've crossed the line here and other places. That's the full picture, and nothing else.
-J

Roderick Grant
Posts: 10569
Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Re: Dealing with visitors in this time of COVID

Post by Roderick Grant »

Jay,
Given the history of immunology concerning coronavirus, plus the fact that so far there is only a promise that has yet to be realized (one immunized patient reacted violently to her shot), it is not unreasonable to be skeptical. How my having an opinion that doesn't jibe with your bias is offensive to you, I do not know.

It is also worth noting that it was President Trump who got the ball rolling on immunization, no one else. Biden may eventually take credit for whatever success obtains from the immunization of the entire planet, but it will be hollow.

I hope for a cure. I am tired of sitting around with nowhere to go. I cannot cook, and I long for Norwegian salmon. I won't be fist in line for a shot, even though I am old enough to have been God's baby sitter, because I don't contract bugs easily. In the past 63 years, I have had 1 sore throat and 2 mild cases of food poisoning. (Hint: Never order quiche Lorraine at a drive-in.) And in all that time, I have never had a shot of anything, other than scotch. Nevertheless, even one death is one too many, and I do not wish even a tummy ache on anyone. I take offense to the egregious anger aimed at me for no good reason.

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