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Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:23 am
by dkottum
Weinstube translated from German to English is wine room. Located in the basement, it appears to have two (intake and exhaust) of its own ventilation ducts up through the chimney mass, independent of the air conditioning. If so, I suspect the ventilation would not be used during the desert summer for the wine room.

The wine room, air conditioning, the plenum(s), some ducting through perforated ceiling boards, the louvered ends of each wing, an early study drawing showing a large plenum over a bedroom, quite a mystery to me and not usual in Wright's work. The client must have had some special requests, and this is Wright's creative and beautiful response.

Doug K

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 1:26 am
by dkottum
I imagine the separate ventilation system for the basement wine room allowed the Palmers to make and ferment their own wine, without the house taking up the odors.

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:33 am
by Tom
Sounds like you may have figured it out.
Basement plan for WineRoom reads:
"Exhaust at floor
Intake at ceiling"
So must be relying on natural air cycle to clear that room?

Other side of masonry mass up top show openings for AC equipment
toward living AND dining room.

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:47 am
by SDR
If the plena are open to the air at each end, the house would be a late version of the Fireproof House (in that regard), whose ventilated second-floor ceilings were able to be opened or closed, seasonally.

See second paragraph of this transcription of the Ladies' Home Journal article which introduced the house . . .


Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:18 am
by SDR
There is a reflected plan view of the exterior louvers which notes them as "open"---but I find no longitudinal section drawing which confirms this; all of the drawings in the set are cross-sections.


Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 10:59 am
by Matt2
Nice of the auction house to make high res images available. What's the best way to download those images?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:10 am
by SDR
To see them at the largest size you need to sign up. I don't know of a way to download them; I enlarged them and took screen shots.


Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:12 am
by Matt2
Got it. Thanks...and thanks for the screen shots of Palmer.

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:00 pm
by Tom
SDR: Never read anything on the Fireproof House before. Thanks.
Something similar could indeed be going on here at Paul V Palmer House.

Provisons are made in the plan for HVAC equipment.
I have not seen anything yet the indicates individual supply vents for rooms.
Would imagine Dkottum correct about it being something like a perforated board or gap between boards.

Individual bedrooms well equipped for cross ventilation: doors low and two layers of vent windows across and above.

BTW - this sounds like a job for our hero Romero.

David where are you?

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:48 pm
by Matt2
I was just thinking this would be a good sketchup project.

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 2:18 pm
by Rood
Tom wrote:Well ... those ends are labeled as open louvers.
and there is an "air conditioning machinery room" in the basement.
how does it work?

wait a minute ... actually the plenum does not cross above the bedrooms.
The volume of the bedrooms pops up to the high ridge of the roof.

Looks like only the living room receives whatever kind of AC is going on.
Perhaps, but the 7th drawing down features a section through a bedroom, topped by a fairly large "Air Conditioned" plenum.

Don't know how effective that might have been during extended periods of summer heat. I once moved into a home with a much smaller A/C plenum placed directly below the (insulated) roof, but there was much loss of cool air from the continuous build-up of heat. Problem solved when I moved the plenums down to ground level.

(By the way, I don't believe I've ever seen these drawings before ... It's one fascinating design.)

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:12 pm
by Matt2
Is this project published in any Wright project list? Make you wonder how many other such projects are floating around.

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:52 pm
by SDR
From page 2:

The first Paul Palmer project, based on the Ralph Jester opus, appears in Monograph 7 (pp 158-9, five plates) and in Taschen III (p 139, one plate),
and is dated 1947.

The second project appears only in Taschen (p 178, one plate); it is dated 1948.


Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:14 pm
by dkottum
Among the interesting features of this Palmer design, the children's bedrooms are located outside of the envelope of the main house. You must go outdoors and walk under a covered terrace to reach them.

I think FLW liked the idea, a way of being close to the natural environment in warm climates. Taliesin West would be reminder of this, as well as the old ranch houses of the Southwest.

Of FLW work, Jester (and derivatives) and the Price Grandma House also share this unique idea in a modern house. Maybe others?

The question here is, what does the air conditioning expressed in these plans amount to? Ventilation, compressor driven air cooling, something else, or a combination of these? The design is uniquely centered around this idea, whatever it is.

Posted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:23 pm
by Tom
Sheet No. 9 heating and cooling notes - in parentheses says that a forced air cooling system for the living room, dinning room, master bedroom, and wine cellar is to be installed under separate contract.