Glore Residence - Lake Forest

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SDR
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Location: San Francisco

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by SDR »

Thanks for the link; for all that's been written about these floors, I've never seen the process on film before.

Another new red slab appears at the moved and rebuilt Bachman-Wilson house. Some photographs seem to show separate squares---as if they might have been pre-cast and placed. Construction photographs suggest that the floor was poured in pieces rather than all at once:

https://news.artnet.com/exhibitions/fra ... ges-328009

https://chiefengineer.org/wp-content/up ... 00x212.jpg

S

Roderick Grant
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by Roderick Grant »

The floor of Walter was done with individual, pre-cast slabs. But I know of no other house done that way.

Tom
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Location: Black Mountain, NC

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by Tom »

I've heard it said that the latter day work of Wright is different in quality from the work that preceeded.
And I agree ... to some degree with that. Glore seems a case in point.
Commissions are flooding in to Taleisin at this time and Wright cannot spend time on each project
as in earlier days of his career - is that correct?
So how to articulate in a critical manner this qualitative difference?
I'm particularly interested in RG and Rood's understanding of this - if they are willing to reflect here.

First, I guess one should state that the overall economic conditions of the U.S. in the 1930's and on the other hand
the 1950's would be very different and that Wright and Taliesin would be forced to move with it.

But two items of design present in Glore raise questions to me.
First is the unadorned white plaster ceiling throughout.
It's used in other houses as well of this period.
Is that an economic compromise or priority design decision?
Of course all wood would indeed be very expensive, but I miss the wood trim of the early years here
as in Taliesin.
Second, Wright Seems to be content with "accidental" results at Glore.
For example, where the roof meets the exterior walls at either ends of the house
and creates those open areas filled in by glass in the Master bedroom on one side
and the study over the living room on the other.
Compared to the work of the 30's it doesn't seem to have the same sense of being
completely thought through.
In the literature on Wright is this topic handled?

Roderick Grant
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Joined: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:48 am

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by Roderick Grant »

I'll take a shot.

There are many reasons for the qualitative differences between the work from Willey through Jacobs II and the late post WWII work, some as you point out, due to the overwhelming number of commissions, also the greater reliance on apprentices and FLW's failing health and eyesight. But I don't see any diminution of his creativity. That was in full force in such built houses as Walker, Laurent, David Wright and the Chahroudi Cottage, plus Morris Gift Shop, Beth Shalom and Guggenheim. There are even striking works of genius among the unbuilt houses, like the Watkins Studio. But there were a host of second-rate designs that (fortunately) were not realized, much of Mono 8.

But I will have to mull it over before getting too specific. It is definitely a subject that has been discussed before, often not at all convincingly, and is worth considering again.

Duncan
Posts: 93
Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:05 pm

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by Duncan »

Small point, but when I visited this house c. 1963, the ceilings and soffits were unpainted sand float plaster. They has a texture and color far superior to what we see today.

SDR
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Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by SDR »

That final "small point" is of interest in itself, and as an answer to one of Tom's many questions.

"First, I guess one should state that the overall economic conditions of the U.S. in the 1930's and on the other hand
the 1950's would be very different and that Wright and Taliesin would be forced to move with it."

Different in what ways that would affect the quality of Wright's work ? More money available with which to build ? Rising construction costs ? Move, in what ways ?

"Of course all wood would indeed be very expensive, but I miss the wood trim of the early years here
as in Taliesin."

You don't permit Wright to move with the times ? Less is more . . . three lines where one is sufficient . . . elimination of the inessential . . .?

Schindler's work became more nuanced, more "accidental" over time; why wouldn't Wright move in a parallel manner, increasing the complexity of planes, roof vs glass vs masonry (as at, for instance, Niels) ?


Too much is made, I think, of designs not completely wrought by Wright, in the 'fifties. He is said to have approved everything that left the studio; he completely reworked portions of apprentice-initiated designs before letting them go. Here is Curtis Besinger on the matter:

Image

Curtis Besinger, "Working with Mr Wright . . .", p 225 (Winter 1950-51)

SDR
Posts: 19692
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 11:33 pm
Location: San Francisco

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by SDR »

(It is true, on the other hand, that Mr Wright was occasionally bamboozled into initialing certain drawings containing matter he might not have agreed with, by the ruse of approaching him with such drawings when he was, for instance, rushing to depart on a trip. I thought this revelation was made by Besinger, but I don't find it readily in his book, and I can't recall where else I might have read it.)

S

juankbedoya
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:30 am

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by juankbedoya »

SDR wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:33 pm
Color is always nice---and that last view drawing is somehow unusual for a Taliesin persective. (It also has the telltale marks of the perspective method, a row of transfer ticks from the plan---not seen---to the view drawing.)

But the colored plan isn't clearly printed; the black and white reproduction of the same sheet has notes that can be deciphered---mostly.

In close-up, the circular element attached to the carport is labeled "Heat and Utilities." But above that is a handwritten note that I can't read. And it's too bad we have no bedroom-level plan.

It isn't clear just where the entry is; one of the row of glazed doors---as at Goetsch-Winckler ?


Image

I'm intrigued about the second floor plan also. About the entry... well, meeting Wright and his modest entryways, you usually enter through the carport and then you can go to some zones from the same point, the private wing, social wing, service area, staircase, etc. But here you find directly that big dining area so I don't know. Or he pushes you through a outside walkway from the carport to the living room. Thanks for that "zoom" pictures. I think is the second option.

juankbedoya
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:30 am

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by juankbedoya »

SDR wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:52 pm
Thanks for the link; for all that's been written about these floors, I've never seen the process on film before.

Another new red slab appears at the moved and rebuilt Bachman-Wilson house. Some photographs seem to show separate squares---as if they might have been pre-cast and placed. Construction photographs suggest that the floor was poured in pieces rather than all at once:


S
you're welcome

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aZeljs ... 1&index=13
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFN6EGC ... 1&index=58

Tom
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Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:53 pm
Location: Black Mountain, NC

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by Tom »

The Besinger excerpt was really helpful.
I'm just guessing that all things were more expensive in the 50's than in the 30's
and that might be relfected in the work - plaster ceiling ... I don't know.

Come to think of it - Zimmerman was built in the 50's. I can't remember what kind of ceiling is there,
but the house doesn't have the same kind of issues as I suspect Glore as having. ummm?

But yes, SDR, I don't begrduge Mr. Wright going in any direction he pleased.
I'm just noticing my internal reactions and bringing them forward.
I never saw the unpainted sand float finish - I think that would have made a difference.
... and on the other hand I think it might have been nice to see Wright revisit, revise, renew
his ornamental wood ceiling trim work here at Glore like Taliesin and Willey.

In the clubhouse ceiling of the Fredensborg Housing project (1960's), Jorn Utzon takes a clue from Wright
-I believe- and runs small wood trim 1ft O.C. on top of the plaster for the length of the interior and it
warms the place up nicely.

And I agree with RG about no diminishing of Wright's creativity to the very end.

juankbedoya
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:30 am

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by juankbedoya »

SDR wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:10 pm
Comparison of current Realtor plans and Storrer's 1993 plans (center):

Realtor plans © 2020 PALO DOBRIK photography and by realtor.com®
Thanks for the comparison, I was going to do this. First of all I see the Realtor plans are not well drawn at all, the triangular columns in the ground floor still exist but the plan is without them. I hope the new owner brings back this house to its original form as possible. The modifications changes considerably the architecture. I think a good example of a restoration and renovation is the Albert Adelman house. The architects had a delicate touch for doing their work. They built an addition with the new pool house but this doesn't contact with the main house but is in direct relationship. The renovated master bathroom is amazing and is in tune with the architecture. Here in Glore, the additions brokes the charm of the house and is not well design functionally, from the garage you have to pass all rooms, very bad.

Tim
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Joined: Sun Feb 07, 2010 4:52 pm

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by Tim »

I really like the floors. However, I understand the reaction.

juankbedoya
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:30 am

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by juankbedoya »

Tim wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:09 pm
I really like the floors. However, I understand the reaction.
Original floors or today floors..? I understand the needs of the former owners. The dining rooms is too small, the kitchen... well I usually hate usonian "workspaces", too small as well, but that's it in this house for me. The alterations went further.

dkottum
Posts: 427
Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2005 8:52 pm
Location: Battle Lake, MN

Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by dkottum »

I don't recall the enclosure of the outdoor terrace was for a dining room, but rather a family/TV room. Better to have spent the money on the pool.

If the pool had been built, the original plan would have been more useful. The sheltered and open outdoor terraces then would support an active outdoor space for family and visitors. That is, weather permitting. The Pike concept, from which this was taken, was planned for Los Angeles and its excellent year round weather.

I believe the Glore or Pike house with their pools would be more desirable than what we have today if left for Southern California. It will never be entirely satisfying in Lake Forrest, Il.

Doug

Tom
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Re: Glore Residence - Lake Forest

Post by Tom »

Good point.

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