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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:11 am
by peterm
More nothing burgers... Today from the (failing;- ) New York Times:

" The June 3, 2016, email sent to Donald Trump Jr. could hardly have been more explicit: One of his father’s former Russian business partners had been contacted by a senior Russian government official and was offering to provide the Trump campaign with dirt on Hillary Clinton.
The documents “would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father,� read the email, written by a trusted intermediary, who added, “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.

If the future president’s elder son was surprised or disturbed by the provenance of the promised material — or the notion that it was part of an ongoing effort by the Russian government to aid his father’s campaign — he gave no indication.
He replied within minutes: “If it’s what you say I love it especially later in the summer.�
Four days later, after a flurry of emails, the intermediary wrote back, proposing a meeting in New York on Thursday with a “Russian government attorney.� "

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:04 pm
by Rood
Drip, drip, drip ....

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:48 pm
by peterm
The dripping pipe is so corroded and rusty, it's about to burst and completely flood the place.

"The Russian investigation isn’t a witch hunt anymore, if it ever was. It’s a national necessity."
This is the National Review, Wm. F. Buckley's magazine, not the NY Times.

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:15 am
by peterm
I love The Onion even more than The Garlic:

http://www.theonion.com/video/onion-fac ... -abo-56382

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:53 am
by Mod mom
Peter, if you like The Onion, have your watched "The President's Show" on Comedy Central?

Here's a funny one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7FihAeAkCA&t=86s

I especially love the guest interviews with the moment of clarity.

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:34 pm
by Tom
Robert Mueller is looking in to it. We will have his report in about two years.

In the meantime, in my judgement, best to oppose Trump on policy.
That's what voters care about. If not, he'll be re-elected.

The DNC continues to self-destruct on Russiagate.
Saudi Arabia, Israel, Ukraine are relationships more pernicious.

Opposition research is de rigueur, competitively obligatory, whereas the status of traitor requires really HARD evidence and imprisonment.

The comparison of the DNC's backing of the Steele Dossier to their Trump-Russia shenanigans is telling.

It's easier to oppose Trump based on Russian relations than it is to oppose him on policy because
- in my judgment-
the DNC's donor base does not, in principle, disagree with Trumps' policies.
But the DNC's popular base does.

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:20 pm
by peterm
Modmom-

Thanks for the tip. I hadn't seen it until now. Clever!...

I can't speak for the donor base; I only donated to Bernie Sanders. I think the Democrats are united in opposition to Trump policy, but haven't yet come together over a solution to health care. There are two wings within the party, those who feel like we should improve the ACA, and others who say it is time to act on single payer.

But I'm not seeing much in the way of support for Trump/GOP policy from the Dems. Am I missing something?

There are several other crimes to be considered before even discussing treason. Obstruction of justice, perjury, violation of the emoluments clause, plus all of the cabinet and family members who are either lying or suffering from amnesia, will all be on the back burner while the GOP attempts to push through their tax cut for the wealthiest impersonating health care.

Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:45 pm
by Tom
Peterm,
I might call the differences between he Repubs and Dems an argument over "the narcicissim of minor differences."
But then if the Repubs pass their health care tax cut slight of hand you would say to me, "Well - do you think that is a minor difference?"
I would have to get back and say no - your win.

and yet, the Dems are just as formally wed to Big Pharma and Big Insurance as McConnel and Ryan.
They are just as wed to NATO, the American Arms industry and international relations as force projection as are McMasters and Mattis.
The Dems have no challenge to Global Finance,
which makes me suspect that they are only paying lip service to the Climate and are wed to the continual extraction of fossil fuels as Rex. Obama pumped a lot of oil.

But consider the source:
I thought Reagan was an unelectable hypocrite.
Then I thought the country could not elect anyone to the right of him.
I thought WJC was a good deal and then he signed Welfare Reform, and repealed Glass-Steagall with Phil Gramm.
I thought George Bush was unelectable.
I was convinced he could not be re-elected.
I was really surprised when Obama dumped his campaign economic team and replaced them with Geithner and Summers.
I was convinced Trump could not be elected:
therefore I was one of 624 people in the ENTIRE state of North Carolina who voted Green.
...I may be the one who is missing something.

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 4:07 pm
by Rood

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 5:06 pm
by peterm
"I have nothing to do with Russia." -DT

More lying bs out of the administration:

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... y-trump-t/

Does it get any better/worse than this quote?:
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 ... acker.html

Not millions, rather... https://youtu.be/iZgWzz5TG8g

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:03 am
by peterm

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:04 am
by Tom
Was talking with a friend today who is following this Russia thing.
Sounds to him like this meeting with Trump Jr. is more involved than a mere
'oppositional research' meeting.
Okay.
May be so indeed.
Nevertheless, here is the crux of my issue with all this:
People, "respectable" people keep saying things like:
"Russia is our adversary"
... and people talk like the problem with Trump is to so much Trump, but rather the fact that he is meeting with our adversary.

I think it's dead wrong to think of Russia and Putin as our adversary.
...agree - disagree?

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:28 am
by peterm
Russia is not a democracy. We supposedly are (last time I checked). The real issue is the money. Money laundering oligarchs, propped up by Putin, own the Trump family. It's the Russian mafia and its interaction with the Trump family that we should be watching. The government of Russia serves only the interests of a handful of billionaire families, not the people's. Is that what we want here; are we content with plutocracy?

The whole thing is more Michael Corleone than Josef Stalin...

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:04 pm
by Roderick Grant
Peter, as usual, your conclusions are convenient to your bias and without support. No connection has been proved, and so, until otherwise, Trump is innocent of any financial wrongdoing. If you want to deal with presidents and their connection with "the Mob," Russian or Italian, go back to the Kennedy clan. All that has been verified. Not so Trump.

Name a country that is not a plutocracy. The rich get their way, here as well as everywhere else. It has been that way since the invention of wealth. The difference between the US and other countries is that we have a strong middle class, a bulwark that keeps excess in check. Unfortunately, that seems to be fading, to our eventual (and probably belated) chagrin. The absolute decimation of the middle class would eventuate with our descent into Socialism. Bernie Sanders, whose incompetency and arrested development would add a layer of befuddlement to government, would have been the true harbinger of collapse. Hillary just a noisome interlude.

Russia is a mess, no doubt, and just about anyone other than Putin in charge would be an improvement, but it is not an adversary. That Russia's Democracy is not of any real value should not be the metric by which we evaluate our relationship. China isn't a Jeffersonian wet dream either, nor is anything south of Texas. Allowing countries to decide for themselves would be wiser than trying to impose our standards on countries like Russia, which has never had anything resembling Democracy in its entire history.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:57 pm
by peterm
" Thirty-two percent of Trump voters don't believe that the meeting about potentially harmful Clinton information happened..." This, despite Donald Jr.s clear admission in his own words.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.busine ... ing-2017-7

Another unrelated(?) but disturbing poll result:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... urvey-says